Trenton ReynoldsShow notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com. If you like the podcast, please consider showing your support. You can become a subscribing patron at patreon.com forward slash room. And to remind everybody, t-shirts are out. We're so happy to share those with you, and they're awesome. You can check those out at roominthetrees.com forward slash shop. and we would appreciate it if you would rate us on iTunes and leave a review. We love reading them and it helps us reach a larger audience. We have been gone for a little while, a little too long. There has just been a lot going on in my life and I took a little time just to take a little rest. I needed some... recuperation time and also was out of town for family vacation so there have been and a new studio so lots of things we apologize for the break and we are back up and running now so you can expect weekly episodes for the foreseeable future here's the episode hope you enjoy so this
Sabrina Ward Harrisonmorning i just thought why not just see if anyone has any questions so welcoming any art creativity life questions for room in the trees podcast recording today So the first question is from Jen Downer, and it is, I'm always curious about flow, how to create it when it has a hiccup, how to affirm habits when life is overwhelming, overcoming fear to get into flow. That's so good.
Trenton ReynoldsWhat are your thoughts about that?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI feel I'm in that place right now. That's why it's interesting to me.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsYou're in the place of trying to figure this out, how to do that?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I'm in the space right now of wanting to get myself back into flow. And how to do that within a constrained environment of saying, well, I don't have room outside to do it. I don't have... Basically, it's a whole space outside. I think it's really the thing for me. It's really the thing. I think that's... I know I should be able to do it without it, but I also don't like working at my works on the walls, and I would rather work on the floor. You're looking at the dimension of it is really different when you're kind of crawling all over it. My downstairs neighbor, Ted, who I never thought would ever leave the build, ever leave, it's a duplex, so there's two units. And he got approved to buy a house. So he's, for the most part, probably going to be moving out in July. And Corey and I may live downstairs and then have upstairs be my studio. All studio space.
Trenton ReynoldsWow.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThat would be huge.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, yup.
Trenton ReynoldsWould that solve these problems somewhat? I mean obviously it doesn't put you outside, but it does give you a lot more space to be able to spread out.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and not have to feel that I have, because I really do like a peaceful, cozy, welcoming home environment. I don't like chaos, and I don't work in an organized manner at all, so the feeling of being able to roll stuff out on the floor and have it be a no-dog zone is also thrilling, where I can just roll something out. There's not a ton of wall space, but again, I don't really need the wall space as much as I need the floor space. So if I drop cloth covered, even though I've totally trashed the floor, the wood floors here, not meaning to, but I did. I found a power washer on the street and I used it on the wood floors. It was this really, really bad idea. Really bad idea. It like took all the finish. Shoot. um so yeah i've seen that yet nope but nope uh but it's such an old house and so much needs to be done on it but anyway um yeah so it just feels like i'm handing it over to the universe i was really surprised to hear that news about ted and uh Corey's just completely he's all in he's already buying stuff like mulch and got starters of vegetables so we can get all the stuff planted and have a little fire pit what?
Trenton Reynoldswere you planting things around the house?
Sabrina Ward Harrisonelse? So we covered the deck with planters and planted a ton of beautiful things, peonies and
Trenton ReynoldsThat sounds like a tremendous amount of plant space.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, it's not like a huge garden, but it is... Corey really, really, really is into gardening. When he was in Seattle, he had 18 raised beds for vegetables, so he... he's definitely a go big or go home kind of person, which is, I appreciate, I think I'm that way too. Like,
Trenton Reynoldsyou're going to do it,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonjust frigging do it. Just do it.
So,
Trenton Reynoldsso does Corey know the names of all the plants and all the flowers? He does. Yes.
Um,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYes, but he's more versed in vegetables than he is in flowers. But he's like a kid in a candy. When we went to Home Depot, we went two days in a row and just bought the whole garden place. He's like, it's definitely his happy place. And then he just got a skill saw so we can build the back panels for my wooden pieces. Oh, a miter saw. He got a miter saw.
Trenton ReynoldsThings are happening. That is so fun. It's so fun.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's really fun. And what I love is he's just becoming my best friend. It's just so much fun. Every day I just feel more and more close and just in awe and gratitude for him. this person in my life. So we, he's, yeah. It's so that's nice to share with you. Anyway, what?
Trenton Reynolds- So flow, that actually, that all I feel has a lot to do with creating flow. On some level, it has to do with you being in line with, or being aligned with your partner. in all the different aspects of your life, or having some kind of balance where that flow can happen. Like if things are not straight, I don't know, I'm thinking kind of visually here and trying to translate that into words, but if things aren't aligned or able to move down a path freely, then... then it's not gonna be able to happen, you know? And I think literally and figuratively I'm speaking. Like if you don't have the space, then that's gonna throw a kink in this, your ability to have some kind of flow or to have some kind of movement in your thinking and how able you are to feel comfortable in what you're doing. If your relationships aren't right, that's going to affect how able you are to let go of the outside world and just focus on and be present for what you're doing. So there's a lot of things I think that tie into that sense of, of flow and I in a lot of regard I think we could talk about this whole past year in terms of this idea of trying to find flow yeah to create a space where you can move and not feel confined or restricted or blocked or you know all these things that are contrary to the idea of being able to flow
Sabrina Ward HarrisonSo what do you think about that? - I agree, and I think also the way the flow, sometimes to get in the flow, you have to kind of let it not be as smooth. It's almost like you have to loosen the earth around it so the water can pass through. Like it's sort of, so you have to shake it up a bit and like maybe turn the work upside down, move it around to a different space, put it on the floor, to say that.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, and I think also you've got to let go of your expectations of how things need to flow, right? Yes. Because sometimes it's, you know, a lot of things just are not possible in certain circumstances. in your life, right? Like if you have to care for somebody 24 hours a day, then you can't go out and, you know, have great expanses of time and space to drop in. So you've got to figure out another way, you know, another avenue for things to be able to flow. And so I think a lot of it is you have to let go of expectations and be willing to fight for new ways to open up paths paths, you know.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- What can you think of as a few new ways?
Trenton Reynolds- Well, I think my whole past year and a half has been a pretty big fight for trying to find, like I've recognized over the course of the past several years that I really, feel a need to have social interaction as part of my creative process. It's really, I really go into a dark space really quickly and feel restricted and bound almost when I'm by myself in a in a studio space making work separate from other people. Interesting, yeah. So that was part of the motivation for me to get the last studio space is just I have this dream or this desire to have people close by that I can talk to and bring in and whose work I can look at and be inspired by and learn from and something external to myself. And so, but that, my first studio space just, it wasn't meant to be. It couldn't work for a variety of reasons. It was too small, too expensive, and, you know, on and on and on. But that experience created the possibility and the connections for this new studio space to work. And when I got here, I was here the other day, and all of us were here. David was here, Yumi was here, Brian was here, and... and there's a new guy, I'm totally spacing on his name, but he's here with a potter's wheel doing ceramics. So he was throwing a pot. David was sitting there, like, talking to him as he threw the pot, and... Brian was sitting in this big armchair looking, staring at a big piece of drywall that he was using to kind of just get a feel for how big he wants to make his next series of paintings. And Yumi was working on a painting and we're all kind of talking and laughing. - Wow, Trent. - And I was, I've been working with wax for the past couple days because I can. In the previous couple spaces, the electricity hasn't been solid enough to handle all the different heating things that I need to plug in. Anyway, it was just like that. I finally felt that that part of the puzzle clicked into place and it was so magical to me. Wow. And talk about flow is like. having everybody there and even though I wasn't really talking to anybody, yeah, it was the, the life that was surrounding me, the conversation that was, that was happening, you know, the, the creativity that I could sense that fed into my, my feeling of, of flow and definitely contributed to my ability to play and experiment with the, with what I was doing with wax. And then to be able to show that to David, you know, like, oh, look, look what I just did. And this worked out really well. And he works with wax in his paintings sometimes. And so he was able to like ask questions and, and like challenge my assumptions and like give me some ideas. And That to me has everything to do with this idea of flow. But again, this has been... I have failed how many times to try to find a space to make this happen. And I've taught workshops out of my garage for two years. And that had some aspects of this to it. But it was too limited to really have enough space to... to be what I wanted, you know, or to be what, what this has, has become. And so it's, it's not an easy problem to solve, or it hasn't been for me anyway. And it has required a lot of fighting and trying new things and, uh, taking the options that I have available to me and seeing if they can work or what parts of them work and what parts of them need to be refined or changed. And It's its own kind of process.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- Next question, do you think? So I'll read a few and see what we can, what we think. So talk about creative failures. That's by Sarah Hunsucker, who actually went to Lockinghead High School, was in my grade. I thought that was a great topic. I had a few that I, I'll tell you one right now. I had a commission for this guy, man, Christopher Bach, for his fiance. a few, not a few, like 15 years ago. Anyway, it had to be, I don't know if it was a Christmas gift or it was a birthday gift, but it was a very time-sensitive gift. And it was on a wood panel, and it was black with kind of chalk. But the critical part was it was basically black paint, black flat paint, and collaged over it, then collaging. And... It was a wooden box frame piece and I went to spray the finishing fixative varnish over it. And the freaking thing was white spray paint. Oh yeah. Yeah. good times I had one just a few days ago so I was holding this quart of paint and I had masked off the plastic on the floors and painters tape and then a drop cloth over it feeling very like you've never done the pre spill set up before covering all my bases here. I'm holding the quart of paint. I'm dipping it in with my other hand. And what happens, I just somehow let go of the quart of paint. Like it just fell, literally fell out of my hands, bam on the floor and Prussian paint went, bam, bouncing straight up to my face and my hair and my, so weird. It was like, And it was just kind of slow motion, like no way. And then to get from the studio through the living room into the kitchen is like, there's a nice rug that I like. And so I have to change that because I was covered in paint, but I had to get across this rug to get to clean off my face and my everything. I didn't know how much I'd gotten on me. And then, of course, the can spilled, so I pulled back the... drop cloth and then the plastic and there's a hole in the plastic so the the paint is is gushing through this tiny hole you know onto the wood floor and i'm like ripping the plastic off and wiping it up and uh so and prussian blue is an intense color that
um
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI love it. I love it. I don't think it was dark enough when I got it mixed. What do you like mixing with Prussian Blue? What are some colors? What are some things you can do with Prussian Blue, would you say?
Trenton ReynoldsHonestly, I don't use Prussian Blue all that often. I like it as a color, but it's so strong that I find that if I have it out on my palette, it kind of takes over. So unless I'm doing something where I want a really intense blue...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's just such a gorgeous color. It is. It is gorgeous. Have you had any fails recently or minor catastrophes?
Trenton ReynoldsI think when I think of failure... I don't tend to have those kinds of failures. That's the thing. As you're telling this story, I don't tend to have catastrophic... Spilling situations. Spilling situations, which I feel like are something that you... that you've had to deal with? Like when we talk about failures, it seems like those are stories that you bring up. But I don't really have those. The failures that I have are like, I spend hours and hours working on a painting and end up hating it. You know, that's where I feel like the weight of failure is like investing all this time and energy into making something. And it might be for a show or it might just be, you know, painting to paint. But feeling like I love it at one point and then the more and more I work on it, the worse and worse it gets. And I'm never able to bring it around. And... oh that's hard do you have the is that something that you struggle with I have that too
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyeah that's another question someone asked was uh I'm gonna just pull up that question
Trenton Reynoldsthere was a question about the importance of critique and and failure. - Yeah. - I was part of a critique group, and I've done this several times with the LA Arts Association, really enjoy it, and it was my turn for the group to come to my studio for a critique, and I didn't wanna just show 'em these portraits that I've been working on, I wanted to, I had this idea for a series of paintings that I wanted to do where I took photographs of myself and my daughters, like them, like giving them like horsey rides. sounds kind of silly when I say it out loud, but like, you know how they like to crawl up the front of my body when I'm holding their hands. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And jump on me when I'm asleep on the couch, and like all these different things that are part of our daily life, these kind of physical interactions. and do a series of paintings that were really just gestural and loose and very abstracted. Anyway, so I had this idea for this series of paintings. They would almost be like Franz Klein abstractions where there was just like big lines and shapes, but based on these kind of... relationships between this small body and a big body. And, you know, anyway, just kind of an interesting way to explore relationship, you know, physical relationship. And, and I, so I made a bunch of these paintings for this critique and on one of them, I took it more illustrative. I started to actually paint in face facial features and make it more literal. And it was just bad. And I saw in it a lot of the things that I tend to, that are kind of crutches for me that I tend to rely on or like where I tend to overwork things in a very similar way. And I think it's just because that's what I know how to do. You know, it's not a matter of being the right decision, it's just the only thing I know, the only place I know to take these things is more literal and more illustrative, because that's where my background is. So, anyway, I think that was kind of a point where I realized... you know, it was like this thing where I could see it happening. I could see that I was doing the same thing that I always do and not really knowing how to get out of that. But then I decided to show that that particular piece during the critique anyway just to see what people said. And I think that was a very valuable, I got a lot of really valuable insight, just in how people responded to it. And realizing A, some of the things that I am self-conscious about and feel like are not good were some people really enjoyed. And that maybe it's, that's the whole thing it's not something that i need to feel so self-conscious about you know i picked up somewhere along the way that that was a bad thing and maybe it's not a bad thing maybe i've got some wrong assumptions that i need to let go of But also I could tell that some people did kind of shy away from that painting and not really want to talk about it and that was informative as well as hearing, you know, seeing how they chose to just ignore it. Or talk about it in a way that kind of danced around the things that I thought were problematic and that I might have that I even brought up and asked them specifically about. So I think, as I said earlier, for me the conversation is such an important part of creation and critique is definitely an important part of that.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think I need to be held accountable for really making that happen here in Madison. for myself because I think that I forget and as the person asked the question as you were saying it just is it's a great thing to have in your life because for the feedback but also the support you know you're not totally alone in it.
Trenton ReynoldsI think we all kind of build up this unnecessary baggage around our work, of things that we think really matter. or we think other people will think will really matter. And, you know, it's just these ghosts, these things that we just, our imaginations, they're completely unsubstantiated assumptions that we have that are totally just bonkers. And we can't even see that they're bonkers until... we get other people in to start talking about our work. And what was the most offensive thing about our work, like nobody even mentions, you know, it's just not even an issue. Or, you know, or vice versa, the thing that we, you know, something that we don't even pay attention to is the one thing that everybody latches on to. And I think, you know, in its nature, like we're making this stuff partly for ourselves, right? Partly as a way to reach understanding and to express just for the sake of it. But I think it's also a way to connect with other human beings and... You know, you need that feedback to really learn how to effectively do that. Will Corey be critical of your work or tell you when he doesn't like something?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's an interesting aspect because I think it's hard to have your work in progress. And also it's not like I'm working on something that's like four inches by four inches like this is. 10 feet by 5 feet or 7 feet by 10 feet or not 10. Well, it's a very, very large campus, and it's taking up the entire space, and he, you know, has passed by it, and he always says, do you want to talk about it? And I'm like, nope, nope, because I haven't resolved it, and I... that's where the trick for me, and I think it would be great to have this, if this could work out, to have this upstairs, because that's where I get a little hiccup as far as getting it to flow, because I just got to let it loose up here with it.
And...
Sabrina Ward Harrisonum, it, and not be self-conscious, you know, even though he's, he's, he's loves seeing pictures of the process or seeing it as he's like one big shift happened where I, I took piece was horizontal and I just turned it vertical. And suddenly I said, I stood way back and it felt like I was seeing a moon and I'm very abstract, but it was a moon over a lake. Like it, these blues and reds and we'll send you a picture of it. But I suddenly, it felt, it was just like an aha moment of like it changed the entire piece. And then there's just the sense of I want to have completion, I need to, because for me, the when to stop thing is really so critical, it's so tricky. It's kind of like you have to do, you have to stop it with your eyes closed, basically, practically. I think in a way you've just got to go done. Because I can look back at versions that I've taken pictures of it, you know, when, where I'd spent two days on it, you know, two months ago. And I did, I could have, that could have been it. The piece could have been done then the piece could have been done. Then I could have done five more since then. but no, I got it more complicated and fiddled with it. And then felt it was, you know, it's like move it along. So that's when I shifted back to primarily how I like to work, which is on wood and got wood from the hardware store and got it cut down. So I have eight panels that are smaller. They're just two feet, two and a half feet by two and a half feet. that I can just try to work on all eight of them at one time.
Trenton Reynolds- I think hearing you talk about that reminds me of something that I was yesterday in class. I did something I've never done before with my classes and I would just come back from spring break and, I did not do any prep. I did not have anything planned for the class and I told everybody that today I just want you to play and then in my demo I just showed them how I typically like when I just sit down and I'm doodling for myself and like I showed them what that might look like and then we just we just played for the whole time but in the in the
I
Trenton Reynoldsmy as I was talking about the importance of that to me of of just giving myself permission to have times when I'm just playing is is like when you don't feel that sense of expectation or anticipation or that things having to be a certain way it frees you up from fear and and forcing things you know or having something directly to compare it to, right? Like when you're trying to paint somebody's face, if it doesn't look like them, like you failed, right? And so there's this anxiety of having to always be beholden to this picture, you know, this source image. And when you just let yourself doodle and it doesn't have to be in proportion, it doesn't have to look like anybody, there's a... You know, there's an important kind of freeness and experimentation that can happen because of that. And I think when we talk about flow, that ties into it. And failure is, you've got to give yourself ways to, where failure just isn't important. Right? Like, or that... Yes.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd there's a limitation on how long you can stay in that sort of failure, fixing, failure, fixing it thing. I think there's... Do you agree that there's sort of a... Okay, moving on, or... Yeah, yeah. Just, like, I think... Because you can end up even using all your paint up on something that just has gotten too mucked up, and then you've basically done like 47 paintings on one painting. Uh-huh. And that sucks. It does. I hate when that happens.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd so often it does not help anything. It doesn't make any better. It just makes it worse and it makes you feel worse and it makes you more angry and more uptight and yeah, you know, it's the Works against what you're what you're trying to get to
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBecause you don't want to present the piece did you ever had that feeling of just resenting the piece? Yeah. Yeah Yeah
and that's
Sabrina Ward Harrisonthe poor piece is like, I'm just trying. I'm just trying to become. I'm just trying to become myself. You know, I think there's something to that. You know, people, I would encourage people to really see if they notice that kind of, that experience of resenting their work, if they feel stuck and how that really affects. There's something has to be, something has to shift in that feeling.
Trenton ReynoldsI also think that we create these blocks for ourselves, you know, like this, this process of like, feeling that it needs to change, and I don't know what to do. And then I do this, and I try to fix it, and it gets worse. And this, this is, we're just getting more and more and more blocked, right? And that some way, sometimes the best thing to do to get unblocked and to return to kind of flow is to destroy that thing. And this is something that I tell my students all the time and I was told early on in my education is that when you really start, when you recognize that you're starting to protect something you need to get rid of it. You just need to paint over it, you need to tear it up, you need to, because ultimately it's the fear of losing that thing that is gonna keep you from-- - Yeah. developing the whole image. So if you notice that you're painting and you're kind of avoiding working on a part of the painting because you don't want to mess it up, get rid of it. Get rid of it because that is going to, that's sowing the seed for this painting just going down the tubes and you getting more frustrated and fearing and expectation and all these things that we've just been talking about.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonCan you say a little bit more about that, the element part of not wanting the preciousness or not wanting one part of the painting to get messed up? What is that? How does that link?
Trenton ReynoldsHow does that link to...
To one.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThen knowing that you have to get rid of it. Like, is it that you're just, what is that? Like, you like one part of it, but then you're...
Trenton ReynoldsSo let me give you a scenario that I've run into many, many times myself. I'll be working on a portrait. I'll get one part of the portrait just wrapped. and I'll be satisfied or you know whatever it'll be feeling good and but I'm not like over committed to it it's just like okay the cool I like that move on to something else in the painting and I work on that for a little while and I'm getting frustrated and it's not working quite right and I can't fix it and so I keep on working it and painting over and scraping it off and and I'm just killing myself like I cannot get this part of the pain to work And what I'll notice after a while is that there's this little halo around the area that I was able to get right. Like I've just kind of created this force field around it where I'm just not letting myself go back to work into that. because I'm trying to protect it. And I've had this experience enough times to know that if I just wipe away, just get rid of that thing that I nailed, that I thought I got right, it'll turn out, almost always, that that needed to go for me to be able to fix the problem with everything else. like maybe that little perfect why do you think that well I think sometimes it's because that little perfect thing was in the wrong place right like it needed it needed to move over a quarter of an inch for everything to resolve but there's no way I'm gonna just move things over a quarter of an inch a little bit you know there's no way to fix that you just got to get rid of it and then make the big change that needs to happen. But sometimes it's also just that it's impossible to see the problem with everything else when there's this one thing that is just untouchable. And getting rid of it helps you to see, just by taking that away, helps you to see what's not working about everything. else just because you don't have that contrast of this is right and uh you know everything else is wrong like i don't know i think it just skews your perception of what the issues uh what the problem even is so yeah And eyes especially. So yesterday when I had them playing it was all about portraiture. So I wanted them to just practice constructing a face with paint. What does that look like? What are the kind of... how do you just put together a face? And I'd walk in around the room and people would be asking me for help and often times I noticed that the eyes would be great. And you can see it happening, you can see it when people are protecting something. And so that, you know, when I went to help people often times I would just scrub out the eyes. And it sounds like a horrible thing to do, but that's the thing. It's like that's the answer. You just got to get rid of it because you're not going to be able to see the problem until you get, you stop fearing messing that one thing up. Okay, one last question? Sure. How long have we been talking?
Yeah, let's go for it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOkay, there's, well there's two, one is by Katie, I'm not going to butcher her name so I'm not going to say it. The question is, I'm not sure if you've already talked about it, but I'm always interested to hear about the self-love practices of artists. That kind of fits with the self-deprecating stuff.
Trenton Reynolds- Say that one more time, I'm not sure if I caught that all.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- She's interested to hear about the self-love practices of artists, like self-care.
Trenton Reynolds- Self-love practices.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat are your self-love practices, Sabrina? - Um. I think sometimes like sometimes it's something like just spending a little time and this is for me because of my personality isn't as organized and thoughtful about my supplies to say that and just to take a bit of time to just not with a lot of haste and annoyance just spend some nice time organizing your supplies and creating you know kind of bringing the studio back to feeling taking away the chaos of it. So the, you know, I think for me, the environment I'm making is such an influence on the work. So like, oh yeah, 'cause Aaron Benton was visiting, as I mentioned last time, an old friend from high school and I was like, I'll just leave it as is, but I just couldn't, but it did, it just prompted me to just kind of be caring to my supplies and my paints. Another self-care thing for me is just, again, we have to trust the process that you can't just dial it in. And if you have the time to do it, doesn't mean that when you do it at that time, the work's gonna sing. Yeah. And so being gentle with yourself when it's like...
Trenton ReynoldsI feel like this is... what was that quote that you found that about you know that you've grown up when you decide to care about yourself or something like that? Do you know what I'm talking about? I can't remember. - Oh, totally. That was good. - It was, it was perfect. And I think that has been a theme for this past year that I feel like you have done especially good at.
- Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt was in my Instagram post.
Let me just pull it up.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThe day you feel that sweet, gentle desire to take care of yourself, that will be the beginning.
Trenton ReynoldsSay that one more time. I think that is so wonderful.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThe day you feel that sweet, gentle desire to take care of yourself, that will be the beginning.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonsuch a good reminder.
Trenton ReynoldsI can see just like how decisions that I'm making in terms of my diet and sleeping and exercise and, you know, getting medical issues taken care of or going to the doctor for checkups or, you know, that I find so many reasons not to do all those things because of everything else that I feel responsible for. You know, and I feel like we've talked about this many times over the course of this past year where you feel like you've come to a place where you finally realize just how important it is to stop and, you know, just take care of yourself. You know, not let yourself talk yourself out of, you know, doing those things that you just need to do to be well. And I think I have not reached that point. I recognize that about myself. And over, you know, when my kids and wife were in Utah this past week, I had a little moment where it was just like, I have been, you know, working till, you know, late at night in the studio, getting these fixtures up and getting up early in the morning to work on, you know, apartment stuff. And I just laid down one afternoon on the couch and I slept the whole afternoon. - Yeah. - And it made a huge difference just in just giving myself that little bit of care, psychologically and physically. I just felt like I was able to function better and was happier. So I think there's something to that.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI did, yeah, I did the same thing the other day. I hadn't taken a nap in the afternoon in a really, really long time. I can't think of the last time. And I was in the studio planning on trying to dive into the work. And I just, just lied down and I fell fast asleep. But it was, my body needed it. And I think, I think, um...
It's a real thing.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah. One thing that also comes to mind is Galen Gerber, who is somebody I brought up before, is one of my all-time favorite mentors and art teachers from the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. commonly gave the advice to like when one of his students felt stuck or they didn't know what they wanted to do or if they were even an artist or whatever, he would tell them to go out that afternoon and get a pizza or whatever your favorite food is. Go do something that's your favorite thing to do. like that self-indulgence of giving yourself permission to to be happy you know to find joy to find satisfaction in you know doing these things and just be experiencing I think is an important part of art making you know it's like allowing yourself to be present allowing yourself to feel all these just a joy in being alive and expressing and being with the materials and and not feeling the sense of somebody watching over your shoulder or expecting you to do a certain thing a certain way you know it's like you've got to at some level find that place where you can just you know, be there and present and making because you love it. I don't know. I think that's a good thing too, is every once in a while, just give yourself permission to go out and do the things that make you happy and that you find joy in. yeah and to turn off your phone definitely turn off the voices that are you know are criticizing or bringing negativity into your world
Sabrina Ward Harrisonwell just even getting texts you know it is to drop into your work it is if you're if your phone is if you're getting texts while you're painting it does really mess up the the whole system of operations. Absolutely.
Trenton ReynoldsOr, yeah, text, any kind of information that's, or like a little beep telling you that there's a new podcast in your queue or or a little notification that you know, the World War III has just started, you know, anything that's going to to take you away from the moment. You know, I don't know, that's being silly, but I do think that there's a lot of little bits of distraction that can really turn off your ability to create.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- Yeah, that was Wendell Meldrum's question. who I hope we'll have on as a guest.
Trenton ReynoldsWho is that?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt is, she was in my dad's first film, Beautiful Dreamers, about Walt Whitman. And she's just a beautiful, deep, soulful, gorgeous woman. And I remember when I was, so I was probably 15 or 16, and she was, I don't know. I'm not I would think in her early 30s maybe she just was such a like that's a woman I want to be a woman like her just so deeply feminine and deep and you know just like luscious person like that woman is a woman so yeah she's but she's i would love to hear a bit more about her story so and she loves listening to the podcast oh that's awesome
Trenton Reynoldsuh sometime maybe we could talk about uh gender would you would you be yeah what do you yeah what's what's something about what well it's it's a big topic of discussion in my marriage gender roles and you know what it means to be a woman what it means to be a man in that contemporary culture and society and in a relationship, you know, the expectations that we have of each other based on gender and, you know, assumptions, stereotypes, expectations, those types of things.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. And it's instinctual. Like I, it's instinctual. Like I don't consider myself a really feminine, uh, you know, woman, and I am, and I wanna do these feminine things for my man, and I wanna feel like, I, you know, I just wanna, sometimes I don't really wanna do art, I wanna just be this man's woman, and be like doing his laundry, and roasting sweet potatoes before he comes home. Like I just, it has turned my, work life kind of upside down.
Trenton ReynoldsDo you feel any guilt for feeling like a desire to do those things for him? Like, do you feel like you're not supposed to want to do those things?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYou know, I think, uh, when I was in my twenties and I lived with, um, my, the only other guy I lived with, I was definitely trying to put on the role of being the perfect girlfriend. And I, I, I shouldn't have been doing those things. I think, um, and just kind of deflated me. But I was also wasn't with the right person, so. But I think as I'm older, you just, I think he and I are establishing in a really good way, like him being, letting him really lead the way in certain areas and, you know, like learning, like we had to replace a rug and I had a tooth infection, his back was sore and I was like, no, I'll just do it, I'll just do it, it's fine, 'cause I'm used to doing everything by myself and just freaking figuring it out.
- Right.
Sabrina Ward Harrison- And it was interesting because I wanted him not to have his back hurt, I wanted to just do it. But then he explained afterwards, when he needs to feel like that he did it, and he completed it. - Right. - And so we kind of worked out how it was really helpful. He's like, what would help me next time? He's like, I'd wanna complete it, even if it's to my own detriment, I wanna feel... once I'm trying to do something, I want to get it, I want to do it. And so he said, maybe you could step away and then pretend like you needed a little break and then come back and say, I really appreciate your help. And I was like, that's great. I love that I know that now. I wouldn't have guessed that. I would have thought, you know, I would have think, I'll just do it. I'll tell him not to do it. But that's not, that's so... There's things like that, does that make any sense? - Absolutely, absolutely. - Things you just don't, you don't know about the other person and what makes them feel. Because I do think gender roles are shifting and changing.
Trenton Reynolds- And I think we're getting so many mixed messages and it's so hard to know, like, - Yeah. this feels like voodoo it feels like reading the tea leaves like like so what am i supposed to do now am i supposed to you know be chivalrous or am i supposed to let you do this and feel empowered i i don't know i like there's there are so many little traps and pitfalls seemingly and you know and everybody's trying to figure out exactly what the what the rules are so i'd be curious to talk more about that sometime but even that just little bit is like is so telling that's so interesting yeah anyway enough of that i feel like i've been talking boring talk today
Sabrina Ward HarrisonTalking boring talk. Talking boring talk. That could be the title. Must be boring. I had the thought just as we were talking about how just like this podcast, we don't know most of the time. We don't know how anyone else is experiencing it. and people may dislike the boring talk too. I don't know. Like if I was listening to two people talking and just trying to figure it out and I was in the studio, like we're creating something to listen to when you're doing something else. Yeah. we have to write that down I think that's true though you know it's not like a it's not like we're doing the podcast serial or something like
uh
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd I like podcasts like that.
Trenton ReynoldsYou don't need me taking notes.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo, no taking on this bad boy. Thank you so much for listening, guys.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThere is one space that has opened for the pre-living experience June 9th through 11th, the second weekend. So if that's something you wanted to do, go ahead. If it's not filled by the time this post Go for it. Love you to join me. It's gonna be wonderful time and So thank you for listening and rate us on iTunes. It's so nice to read a review and I think there's something called hashtag tripod that is if you do that, you share it, then it reaches people that are trying out shows that they like this podcast. I don't know. I've never heard that. Yeah, I've heard about it on NPR. Next week, we will be talking about big news. So, wait with bated breath for that. And so, for now, get outside, look at something blooming, and...