Sabrina Ward Harrison: It's Saturday, February 11th, 2017. This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about living a creative life and being introverts. The following was recorded on January 9th, 2017. and this is episode 34, Introverts. Room in the Trees is hosted by Trent Reynolds and me, Sabrina Harrison. Show notes including pictures, links, video, and more for every episode can be found at roominthetrees.com. We hope that's good. things this week. And if you like our podcast, please consider showing your support. It really helps us. You can become a subscriber to Patreon at patreon.com forward slash room. And rate us on iTunes. And what I've found that was tricky was I was trying to do it for other podcasts and I can't do it through my phone. So if you just... when you are on your laptop at some point you just go to iTunes and that's when you type in "Raming of Dreams" there you'll see our podcast come up and it will show the ratings and reviews and you can see it there. I just get very confused when I try to do it on my phone. So that may be helpful and we really love them and appreciate them and they I guess we're doing this. So enjoy the episode. We ramble and discuss in depth being an introvert. So we are talking about being introverted today.
Yes.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: So 24 signs you're an introvert.
Trenton Reynolds: Well, did you choose any, are there favorites on the list of 24 things that we can...
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Oh, they all resonate. Should I quickly go through and read them?
Trenton Reynolds: Yep. Give us the list. 24 reasons or signs that you're an introvert.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Number one, you don't enjoy small talk.
Yep.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Number two, you have a love-hate relationship with your phone.
Ding. Yeah. you
Sabrina Ward Harrison: we can go back and talk about it a little you wait to text back when you're notified that you have a text from a family member or friend you wait until you're ready to give it your undivided attention to read it and send a thoughtful response you find crowds stressful for one one time. You're not antisocial. You're selectively social. Very true. You enjoy being out with a group of people in small doses.
Exactly.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: You are extremely observant and mindful of your surroundings. Oh, yes. you unlock your heart for only the most special of souls you are creative studies show that introverts are a creative bunch we are able to take in a lot of information and use it to create wonderful new ideas you value listening deeply you are highly introspective you tend to overanalyze situations that don't even need to be analyzed. It may take you a little longer to understand what's going on, not because you don't get it, but because you always seek to understand the deeper meanings. You think before you argue. Introverts need to take time to work things out in their heads first, and we choose our words with care. Once we've been given the chance to carefully process the issue we'll be able to clearly communicate exactly where we stand for those involved you are accused of flirting with everybody which is pretty funny considering that it takes time for most introverts to actually warm up to anyone this misconception is usually due to your grade list skills and your mindfulness towards those around you. You enjoy your time alone. This may not sound fun to everyone, but introverts not only like our alone time, we need it. Just doing nothing and having some me time is a way for us to unwind and be energized. eyes. You are rarely bored. Do you want to read some of these? Can you read this? No, keep on going. You're fine. Okay. While our extroverted counterparts turn to others for stimulation, we are constantly working out our lives and dreams in our heads. Introverts are deep thinkers and almost always have an inner monologue running through our minds. It keeps us highly entertained.
It's true.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I don't feel bored. Do you feel very, I don't feel bored.
Trenton Reynolds: Not in the last five years.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: You don't trust easily. You take time to observe and really get to know someone before inviting them into your inner circle. But once you have the right people in your life, you don't hold back and strive to always give the best for yourself. You have a very small group of very close friends. You fiercely guard your personal space, your value, your space, and are extremely picky about what you give your attention to and who you let in because the wrong thoughts and people will leave you feeling burnt out. You are more comfortable expressing yourself in writing or communicating through text and email. I don't really like that because it gives you more time and space to clarify your thoughts before putting them into words. You are great at getting stuff done. Your alone time is packed with brainstorming, outlining, creating blueprints and and putting them all into action.
- Container store.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - That's true. You're a good judge of character. Because you keep to yourself, you're able to take time to observe the people around you and truly get to know who they are. Introverts pay close attention to nonverbal cues because we know words can only tell us so much. So we're usually able to see everyone for who they really are and not just what they appear to be. It's very true. You're great at making decisions. Introverts are masters of thinking things through, allowing us to thoroughly gather all necessary data and weigh the pros and cons before making important choices. You retain an air of mystery. We know there's really nothing mysterious about us, but our tendency to stay just outside the crowd, simply watching and observing while keeping our most emotions and body language in check makes us seem like we are mysterious. You are a loyal friend. Introverts highly value the few close friends they have. If you've been welcomed into an introvert's inner circle, you can almost always be certain you have a loyal ally for life. Thank you.
Trenton Reynolds: Well, that makes this sound pretty great.
I know.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah, it says nine things that only introverts struggles. These are the nine struggles introverts can feel. Okay. One, you feel underappreciated. Thank you. Usually you don't talk much. Sometimes you don't know what to say. Other times you don't have anything to say. Or still other times you just don't have the energy to talk. Regardless, you still wish people would take more time to get to know you or wish you had more energy to talk to them. You entertain a group and become involved visible five minutes into the conversation. You hate throwing parties, especially in your own house. You feel lonelier at social events than you do when you're by yourself. You feel totally exhausted when you have to spend significant amounts of time with large groups of people you don't know. You find it hard to think when you're in a group. You feel like everything must be invaluable and perfect. You hate phone calls. You secretly wish you were an extrovert.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: On many occasions, you envy the energy and social proudness that your extrovert friends have.
What stands out to you?
Trenton Reynolds: Well, this person's use of us, you know, says that whoever wrote these lists is an introvert, right? Yeah. And I think... - Definitely a lot of those ring true for me. I think that last, what was that last one again? Can you read that again? That last thing you just said?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - You secretly wish you were an extrovert. On many occasions you envy the energy and social prowess that your extrovert or difference have.
Trenton Reynolds: Yes. That gets to what, I think the word itself really bothers me. Yeah. And I guess before we get into maybe the characteristics of what makes an introvert as opposed to an extrovert, I just want to be clear that I just don't like the word.
Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: I don't like how it's used. I disagree fundamentally with assumptions that seem to come with that label. And I think that's one of the main things that I wanted to voice today. And I think because you and I would probably... lump ourselves in, find ourselves in good company with our people, with people who would call themselves introvert. I still... So here's the deal. I think introverts, it just has... I think as a society, I think there are assumptions and values built into just capitalist culture, American culture, you know, that tell us that certain personality characteristics are good and some are bad. I don't know. I feel like I might, my tendency is to want to get overly analytical about this. But what I question, these words, these labels and distinctions are important because they teach us something about ourselves, right? Like when we define things and we're necessarily being overly simplistic, right? These are generalizations. That's what words are, right? There's something that a little word that's supposed to encompass a lot of different things, very nuanced things. For me, when that generalization or distinction starts to cover up more than it reveals, I You know, when it starts to... To tell more lies than it does truth. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Kind of, but not really.
Trenton Reynolds: Okay, let me try to say that a different way. So, I feel like... the value of that word and what we're supposed to learn about ourselves or understand about ourselves by by having it even as you know something that you can be I think the negative consequences of labeling people with that word are greater than any kind of thing that we learn from labeling people with that word
You do? I do. Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: I don't think we should use that word anymore.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: But what do you feel about the aspect of the sense of understanding? Because I guess where I appreciate something about it is that I am that way, and I've been so critical of myself a lot. on and off I'm always critical of myself for I see exactly what you're saying I see what you're saying because it's true I'm being critical of myself for being sensitive to the environments and things around me but it is helpful to know that other people are just wired differently like why is the noise the sound of the jazz playing driving me where to my dad who's an extrovert it's more just irritating that the fact that I'm, I'm distracted by the jazz that's playing while I'm trying to think.
Right.
Trenton Reynolds: I'm being overly dramatic.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: No, no, no. But I think I'm just trying to understand the element about, because I, I see what you're, I'm getting the sense of what, what you're saying about our culture and that part of the element, love that aspect of our culture. That is an extroverted culture.
Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: Well, I feel like the words introvert and extrovert are not neutral in our culture. It's very clear to me that extrovert is good and introvert is bad. And I'm not saying, I don't think that's like a fact, I just think generally there's an undertone in how those words are used generally in culture and just kind of common sense. Like you wanna be an extrovert and you don't wanna be an introvert. Or introverts are weird. Or introverts have, I don't know, I just feel like there's a lot of... value associated with those two words and I think that's that's where I start to have a problem with it is you know I don't think there there is any good or bad you know, there's no judgment in those words, or it doesn't need to be. There's no, they're just different. I guess that's what I'm okay with it when we use the words in a way where we're describing just different personality types. But what rankles and what I disagree with...
Sabrina Ward Harrison: What rankles? I've never heard that before.
Trenton Reynolds: I don't even know if that's a word. What rankles?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah. Rankle it up. Rankle it. Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: as there is an extroversion or the thing, you know, character traits that we typically associate with extroverts, so, I don't know, that's--
- That's true.
Trenton Reynolds: - Yeah, I'm sorry. - Can you hold on one second?
Trenton Reynolds: I think it blinds us from sides of ourselves and potential that we have that can be, that's just limiting and potentially damaging to ourselves and to the people that are around us. I think I see this similar type of effect in politics. You know, either you're a Republican or Democrat. And you kind of necessarily have to associate yourselves with things that you don't necessarily agree with because that's what your team believes in, right? And it makes you less able to perhaps entertain ideas and beliefs that are contrary to that, whatever that distinction is, you know, Republican or Democrat. So that's what I worry about for my kind of ultimate problem is I see like when somebody... how I can start thinking I'm an introvert and well that means that I can't go, that I can't be a public speaker, right? Because introverts don't like public speaking. But turns out I love public speaking and it doesn't frighten me at all and for whatever reason that's something I enjoy, you know? But, and that's what I guess I think, I'm trying to say about like, when these generalities hide more than they reveal, you know, and these distinctions, you know, when they start, we start believing them, you know. Right. And we start making them... mean that we don't have the ability to be something different. You know, it just kind of confines us rather than enables us. Now, on the other side, if this distinction empowers you because you recognize that these characteristics are shared with other people and that maybe they are good things and that they enable you to grow and be bigger and more and better. then fantastic. I think that's the best kind of result of using language and giving labels. But I don't think it's used that way at large. I think it's used as a way to limit people or apologize for people or tear people down. And that bothers me. Thank you.
I hear that.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: What's your experience about being an introvert? Where has it been something that has been challenging? If we're not taking away, if we're going to use the labels, can we use the labels just for shits and giggles right now?
Trenton Reynolds: Yes, yes, yes, yes. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have been as dramatic as I was earlier. I am a proud introvert. Yes. But I firmly reject... anybody's assumptions about what that means about me.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Does that make sense? - Yes, yes, totally.
Trenton Reynolds: - Just because I identify with that label does not mean you get to decide what that means about me.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - Love it, true.
Trenton Reynolds: - Okay, so what was the question? What's my experience?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: what's what's where is it where has being who you are been have you noticed that that's in your life now how does that play itself out
Sabrina Ward Harrison: And like really, I guess that final thing about the part about being, like really putting yourself out there is not an inclination that I don't think either one of us have.
Trenton Reynolds: No. Unless it's for somebody else.
Right.
Trenton Reynolds: Like if it's a bigger cause than myself, something that I really believe in, or if it's a friend or a family member that needs help and needs me to kind of get out there and fight for them, I have no trouble doing that at all.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: So I'm thinking of, for example, Aaron Benton. He's a great classic extrovert. I would say. And really good at it. I'm sorry I'm using all these generalizations. But for example he wants to do a podcast so he's reaching out. He's asking people to be involved. He's sending me things for my feedback. He's decided that's what he's going to do and he's just bought the equipment, doesn't question it and moving forward. Just like that's something like his, or just there's a kind of, seems like sometimes with, can be misunderstood as a confidence.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Misunderstood meaning just as extroverted can be, it's more, it's a more confident, that generalization is true. Like because they're more stepping right up and right into it, not kind of hesitating, just like, that is that seems to be a confident action right right or decisive action
Trenton Reynolds: so do you feel that that you have a lack of confidence
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's a good question.
Trenton Reynolds: Because see, I would hazard to guess that you get in the studio and there's nothing but confidence. I'm sure there are occasions when you don't know what you're doing and you're messing up and don't like what you do. On the flip side, so here's just a thought or kind of thinking through it in my mind. For me, if I was presented with paints and a piece of paper, I would have no trouble knowing what to do with it. I'd have all sorts of confidence. Or, you know, put me in front of a group of 20 people and tell me that I need to explain how to mix purple. You know, I can figure it out and I'm going to be fine. No lack of confidence there. put my older brother who is an extrovert in that same scenario and he would be very uncomfortable and have no confidence at all right so yet you know put him in a social situation and you know he'd he'd come across as very self-assured and powerful and confident. I don't know. So I understand, I do think there's that association that we have with extroversion, that these are confident, powerful people.
- Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: - And there's the mistake, right, is to think that just because they're confident in a certain atmosphere or a certain situation, that they're confident in everything. You know, because visibly they're more confident. Their confidence is more on the surface, is more apparent to everybody around them, means that that extends to everything about them.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Right, right, right.
Trenton Reynolds: Whereas I got to believe that probably most introverts have aspects of their personality or aspects of just living life that they are just as, if not more confident than, you know, than an extrovert. Yep. It's just not as visible and there's not as much opportunity for them to display that or communicate that to other people.
Trenton Reynolds: I mean, when you think of intro, like make the, make the sound an introvert, like how does that, how does an introvert sound?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's so true. There's no sound.
Trenton Reynolds: Well, if there is a sound, this is the sound I think of when it's like...
Sabrina Ward Harrison: And the next part's like... Exactly.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Exactly. Exactly.
Trenton Reynolds: But I feel like in my heart, I am definitely more, ta-da, than.
Trenton Reynolds: Right? - Mm-hmm. - I'm definitely not that in casual social situations. And looking at me, I'm sure you would probably think,
Sabrina Ward Harrison: eh. Well, but then when you're engaging and you're, you know, yeah, there's a huge element of like, ta-da!
Trenton Reynolds: Yeah. Well, yeah, in our conversation, I feel like when we're talking about things that we both care about and it's somebody that I trust and am interested in talking with and... I don't know. I have a niece who has been labeled as introvert. But you get her talking about certain subjects, and all of a sudden, just the light turns on, she's engaged, she's right there with you, and there's no hesitance. I don't know. So it's these assumptions that I think come with that label that... They're just problematic.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - One thing that I find that I've noticed for me that I wanna figure out how to navigate, is so one of the main things is you don't like small talk. And so literally one of the reasons I did not, I have not really gotten involved with art shows and openings and ever going, really going to openings or being in shows was that element of small talk. Like the idea of a show and having to meet lots of people and chat, and maybe just especially in a maybe it's gonna be loud lots of people talking and to talk meaningfully about your work or another person's work um especially in the idea of talking trying to make sense of your own work and and and be succinct and clear and be able to concentrate especially around concentration that feels very has always felt very hard for me and i've really avoided those type of social situations, but that's tied to my profession. And I think that's a way there's people that are a bit more comfortable in those environments and can probably make a lot more form relationships easily, more easily and kind of be in that kind of quote unquote circuit of, and get energized by going to an opening. Like, oh, let's go, let's, you know. - Right. - And so.
Trenton Reynolds: - Well, I think that's a system, you know, the whole system of having galleries and openings and people coming to openings and the social, that even environment and the kind of people that have enough money to buy art. you know, it caters to that personality type, right? It's not a natural environment for, you know, for introverts. It's an extrovert place to be. So what's exciting to me is that we live in a time when there are now opportunities for us to have access to conversation to other people,
Trenton Reynolds: to avenues for communication that suit us better than the previous system did. - Absolutely. - I mean, galleries are struggling 'cause it's just not a world now that's as friendly to that way of doing business. Right now, people are having a tremendous amount of success just posting pictures on Instagram, right? And while that's, I'm not saying that introverts like are the best Instagrammers, I'm not trying to make that generalization, but I'm saying like, the ability to curate how you present your artwork and make sure that the message is as you want it or it's presented in a way that you like it, to whom you want it presented to. Like, we've never been, lived in a better time for that to happen. This is, we live in a time of introvert empowerment.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Agreed. Yes, yes.
Trenton Reynolds: It's exciting, right? Like, these are modes of communication and creating value that are really good for us. So, you know, it's kind of thrilling to think of that, like to think that previously a certain set of personality characteristics just worked better for the system that was in place. And some of that was just the way our society worked and how the technology we had available to us and everything. You know, it wasn't that extroverts were better people. It's just that that environment worked better for those personality types. But that's changing.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's well said. I've got to throw out the fact that with little sleep, you're very on point and sharp today. Let's say.
Trenton Reynolds: Yeah, I've gotten six hours of sleep in the last three days. I've totally reached that point where it's like I'm kind of reaching... Delirium. Things just feel really thin, like reality. Yeah, I'm just really tired.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah, but you sound on point. No, thanks. Good job, Chief. Maybe it's a good thing. Thanks, boss. That's a cool question, though. If you're called Chief and boss so often, that's not an introverted label. That's a strong...
Trenton Reynolds: No, there's a lot of psychology in those labels.
Trenton Reynolds: That's not a sincere, like, I think you're a really powerful person, so I'm going to call you boss. There's irony. There's a kind of... I think, I don't know. There's... It's definitely not them saying to me that they think I'm an extrovert.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I know, but I don't think there... I think there's a little something to be said about it. I do. I don't think a lot of people would be thinking about being ironic every time they see me. I say, you've had enough experiences that you've got to say. There's something to be said for it.
Trenton Reynolds: I would be interested to hear if there are other dudes out there that either themselves call other dudes boss and chief and... I can't remember all the words that come up, but either they use those words or they often find themselves being called boss chief or buddy. Buddy's not bad. Buddy's different. Buddy's on a different level.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Buddy's way different.
Trenton Reynolds: Well, it depends on who's saying it because the... if it can be used in a way and in a tone that is right there alongside boss. - Really, how? - Like a little bit condescending, a little bit,
Trenton Reynolds: I don't know, like there's just judgment. There's judgment in the way it's used, I feel like.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Hey buddy. - Yeah, I definitely think buddy, but not-- - Hey pal. - Yeah, not chief and boss though. I don't think there's any judgment. I think there's just-- Hey, boss. Just respect.
Trenton Reynolds: How's it going, boss?
Trenton Reynolds: There you go, boss.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: What's up, boss? I don't get any nicknames like that. Oh, that's so funny. It's so funny. It's not all from the same guy. It's really from different people. Like, how many different people? Nine? Nine.
Trenton Reynolds: Oh, if I had to put a number to it, I'd say I've been called one of those words more than a hundred. No way. For sure. For sure. For sure. Ha ha ha ha.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's remarkable.
Trenton Reynolds: Across the United States. Maybe even internationally. I believe I might have been called. I don't know what the equivalent is in England. And there's got to be every language. There must be the same words in each language. I don't know what they are.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: that's so great oh that's so funny to me
Trenton Reynolds: I think those are extrovert words I know maybe I'll take those no I mean like the people that would call another person boss or chief maybe that's what it is it's like you know you're an extrovert if you call somebody boss or chief
Sabrina Ward Harrison: that's so true that's so true I don't think an introvert would ever call me
Trenton Reynolds: boss or chief I'll have to think about that I don't know if I believe that
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I think so I think you're right Do you think animals I feel like I've Do you think animals are introverted and extroverted?
Trenton Reynolds: Oh absolutely Absolutely I think the lone wolf Introvert
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Cats are pretty introverted.
Trenton Reynolds: Cats, introverted for sure.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Oh, that's so funny.
Trenton Reynolds: Dogs generally probably extroverted. Oh, looking at, so for me, this understanding introvert versus extrovert has taken on new significance for me just as a parent, you know, watching my kids live almost the day that she was born like she would cry until she was physically on top of you. And to this day, when she's in the same room as me, she doesn't want to just be near me. She wants to be physically on top of me. Like she needs to smother. You know, like there's something, I don't know what it is. but she just wants to be right there. She doesn't want personal space. Whereas Eden, my second daughter, I've noticed that she's doing this more where she will seek out small spaces. She'll find a cardboard box and make a little cave and she'll crawl into it. Or we have these Ikea shelves and she'll try to crawl into one of the little cubby holes. or she'll find a closet and just start, you crawl in there and start playing with her dolls inside this.
Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: And I remember myself, I used to do that. I used to find little window sills, um, where I could crawl in there behind the curtain and just kind of sit in there by myself and enjoy the warmth of the sun. And, You know, or my parents had this small bathroom, and I'd go to that bathroom just because it was a small enclosed space, and I'd just kinda sit in there and not necessarily go into the bathroom. Just, there's something about that, kind of being in a small enclosed space that, is more comfortable. And I think it has to do with being alone and isolated. Anyway.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: And contained in your own.
Trenton Reynolds: And contained, yes. Ding, ding, ding.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: And what about Mara? What is your sense of...
Trenton Reynolds: Amara's kind of the golden retriever of the bunch. She doesn't need to be up. Actually, I've been calling her Moogie because when she sees you, she'll big old smile. She runs up to you and she pushes her face into your knees and she starts rubbing her head back and forth. So it's like you're getting a noogie, but you're getting a Mara noogie, so I call her Moogie. She is one of the happiest, smiliest, friendliest. I don't know if it's introvert or extrovert, but it's just warm. She's just a sweet, sweet girl.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's so sweet. What's Laura, would you say?
Trenton Reynolds: Oh, goodness, that is a good question. I would...
Trenton Reynolds: See, I don't know. I would hesitate to go either way with her. I'd have to say introvert... Yeah, probably introvert. And see, that's the thing is, I mean, we're probably talking about matters of degree with these things, right? Because everybody's, you know, in reality, usually it's the case that we're a little bit of both, whatever it is. We're rarely one thing or the other.
Trenton Reynolds: What, how would you... What I'm wondering, I guess, is somebody an extrovert or is somebody an introvert unless you know for sure they're an extrovert? You know what I'm saying?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah, I was going to say that about when I asked that question because I think there's just more extremes. Yeah. maybe but then again that's judging it but um what's yeah like
Trenton Reynolds: like Mara I look at Mara just like we're talking about and I it's not an obvious answer but maybe that means she's an introvert like does extroversion imply a certain extremity you know a certain amount
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I I think that well again going back to our culture our culture seems to be converted like it seems like most people but then again the Google search I don't know a lot of people are looking at it there's like most people don't seem to have a strong reaction to being really sensitive to their environment and maybe not but again you're saying you're right about it is I think it's just being brought it's being it brought to the surface more about and there's more ways to I don't know what I'm saying I do know what I'm saying but I'm not saying it I guess there's a book that I remember being told to read when I was younger called The Highly Sensitive Person. And there's... And it's really popular. There's one called The Highly Sensitive Child. And it's really big research about that. And once you understand it, then you can kind of navigate the world more. a lot better. And it was really helpful. And I think...
Trenton Reynolds: And what is it sensitive to?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Well, why don't you look it up right now?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I'm curious what the definition is for the book. Like, what's the blurb for the book?
Trenton Reynolds: Highly sensitive people? The highly sensitive person. The highly... highly sensitive person.
Trenton Reynolds: Because I know some extroverts that are very sensitive.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - So that's maybe taking it away from the labeling.
Trenton Reynolds: - But yeah, no, I think it's fine. I feel like I made you self-conscious about using any labels and that's, I don't, I'm not saying that. The highly sensitive person, is this you? Are you easily overwhelmed by such things as bright lights, strong smells, coarse fabrics, or sirens nearby? Do you get rattled when you have a lot to do in a short amount of time? Okay, so this is like sensitive in every sense of the word. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - Do you not enjoy, or do you notice or enjoy delicate or fine scents, tastes, sounds, or works of art? I don't think I have really subtle tastes when it comes to, like, smells and...
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I don't relate to that either. But I'm very aware. Bright light's a big thing for me. It's coarse fabric. I can't, like, I think that... I find myself very distracted or...
but
Trenton Reynolds: well you might be an HSP
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I am are you an HSP? but then there's a label about there's a kind of judgment about the word sensitive too for sure you know I think like being called sensitive was always like oh crap I'm sensitive I know I'm too sensitive you know there's but I wouldn't like my dad always says your greatest strength is your greatest weakness and I'm I'm a I am highly I'm sensitive and I feel things deeply experience the world really deeply and that's what makes me me and then it also it is what makes me me and that comes with being it's it's it's a lot it's a lot to feel those things all the time yeah
Trenton Reynolds: I think for me, something I've noticed, I have five brothers, so it's easy to start comparing yourself to family members. But one thing that I've noticed is that I am more comfortable existing in... or understanding things in terms of questions than I am with answers. Like, I think I inherently or, like, fundamentally am not comfortable believing in or acting on answers. Does that... I don't know if I'm saying that very well. What would be an example? I have a brother that has very... just very concrete, has decided about, made judgments about just the world that surrounds him. Like this is good, this is bad. End of story, right? And I think I can be vague about this and still get the point across. Even that, like deciding that this is good and this is bad, I'm uncomfortable with that. Yeah. I'm, there's always that question mark in there for me. It's like, is this good? There's always, there's always that there, you know, and there's always like, you know, I, I think I, I, I know this really well. Like I'm confident about this, but I might be wrong. Right. Right. There's always that question mark is like, I might be wrong or I might not have the full story or I might not really understand what's going on here. Or I might not be good enough to do this. Or I might, there's always that question mark. And for good or for ill, you know, I just, I can't get away from it. I'm more comfortable living with that question mark than I am if I try to just make a decision about something and act. You know, always just kind of decide on something and then leave it alone. And we need those people that can do that, that can decide about something and then not think about it. It's much more efficient, right? If you just say, okay, I understand this. I've made a decision about it. I can file it away and move on, right? Whereas with those of us that can't do that, it's always we have to readdress it every time we approach this thing. - So true. - Like I thought I understood it before, but maybe things have changed. Or maybe the environment has changed. Maybe the relationship has changed. There's always that question mark is terribly inefficient. - Yeah, that's so interesting. We don't want doctors or businessmen or military leaders to be people that live in the question. We want them to say, this is what we're doing, right? Or this is what you have and this is what you need to do to get better. Or we're going to war and this is how we're going to win. you know so I guess that's one thing that I've that I guess I've recognized over time that you know I look at my brothers and I think man like it must be nice just to kind of have things figured out and but you know I say that thinking that they don't have it figured out nobody's got it figured out Right. You know, it's like I don't trust their confidence
Trenton Reynolds: like they do. I think they're just as clueless as I am.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: But they're living with it. It's sort of like about taking it's like an action thing. It's a it's an action element. to that.
Trenton Reynolds: Well, I don't think they're deluded and I don't think that they think they know everything. They just don't worry about it. Yeah. They just decided about it and they don't have to revisit it.
Yeah.
Trenton Reynolds: Whereas it's important. It's not just like, I don't see that as a weakness. It's just who I am. And I think there are good things about that because things actually do change and things are much more relative than, you know, than we would like them to be. And it is, you know. It is a very volatile, movie, messy world. So, just different.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: It comes back to storage. Just deciding. Just deciding. Just deciding. and I...
Trenton Reynolds: Well, that storage and that's, I'm sorry. The thing about me being tired is I get super chatty. That's another one. Awesome. I just talk too much. But the thing about that is that field, when you were telling me that story, it felt like a very potent metaphor for introversion. Like we've got... we have, we keep these like storage lockers in our mind and in our hearts and our psychology of, of ideas or little clips of things that we did in the past that were either wonderful or stupid, you know, and we just, we put them in little boxes and we might need to pull them out later, you know, to use them again or, or, You know, we just, we keep these huge storage vaults full of memories and questions and concerns and things that are meaningful to us. And, you know, I think that is a strength and a weakness. And sometimes, you know, to draw the analogy is... it can be very liberating for me psychologically to clean out the storage locker and just like decide like, I just don't care about that anymore. And I'm going to let all that go. And I don't need to re-decide about it or I don't need to process that again. It's like, it's not doing me any good anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - I'm sorry, I cut you off. - No, that's an epiphany. That's an epiphany, I think, seems like.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: It makes me wonder when you, my dad kept saying, you know, it's just clearing out for new, like you're, one of the people, Aaron Hanley is a great old friend. she gave me a great because I was kind of just freaking out about like what am I going to do and she reminded me she said you do find beauty in the world and you will find more of it you don't have to hold on and she said to channel someone at CrossFit who's just focusing on getting that thing getting something lifted doing something so they can go be on the lake and go do something like
um
Sabrina Ward Harrison: it was just one of the best kind of it reminded me that there's more and I need to make space for that that great feeling of discovery yeah
Trenton Reynolds: Yeah, I think that is probably one of the characteristics of an introvert is we... Maybe that's everybody, though. It's like we fear losing something or not being able to get it back.
And... You know, I guess that...
Trenton Reynolds: that keeps us from having new experiences or creating new things.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - And knowing that we can do it, like just, I think we're quick to sort of typecast ourselves, like, well, I couldn't do that. I couldn't really do that. That's not really me. - Exactly, yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: - What way would you like to just work out where is it, that you feel moved to challenge yourself with that part of you?
Trenton Reynolds: Well, I think we've talked about this before, but the whole conversation about finding my voice, you know, finding... I feel like I've got a massive blind spot. And I sense that it's there. I sense that it's partly... That it's holding me back from doing something. You know, doing whatever it is that I'm on this earth to do. And I think it... I think it just has to be, it's one of those boxes full of, you know, things that I've decided about myself or memories that I'm holding on to and afraid to give up, you know, for healthy reasons and for not healthy reasons. I think that's something that I... want to do is just have more confidence in... in my voice, like it's here. I don't need to find my voice. Exactly. I have it. But I say that, and I understand that intellectually, but, like, I... I don't believe it.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: But you're using it right now.
Trenton Reynolds: I know. I know. I know. That's the crazy thing. That's what I'm saying. It's like I intellectually understand this, but I just know that I'm not getting it. Like in my heart, I just know that it's not connecting with something, that I'm missing something. I don't know what it is. What about you?
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I think, well, one area is that, so all this, one thing that I, and I want to be strong about all this work that was, it was a big step to kind of find all this work that I have had boxed away and let it be seen by Julia and Chris who are both great artists and let it, just let it go. Like they can be judging it, they're photographing it. It's not whatever, but just let's, it was kind of like face to have to, I haven't showed the work to anybody really. Like just, okay. Just do it and I won't look really and try to, I won't judge it and say, no, don't photograph that one. I just said, just photograph, let's photograph all of it. Let's just get it done. So the next step now is to share it with who I have to share with, Fiona and Carrie in London. And that, part of me that's like, I don't know, holding on to that. Like, I don't know. It's not for me to judge it. It's just, it's taking action decisively and nothing happens without action. Nothing happens without action. So. the part that's that held back because I think well it's not quite it could be it's not quite it's like when is it ever gonna be you know when is it ever gonna be and that's what I that's That's where I know that.
Trenton Reynolds: That feels like such a reoccurring theme for both of us this past year. And you have done such-- I don't feel like I've done nearly as good a job as you have of being decisive and being clear about what you're doing and taking action and not letting the demon voices hold you back from doing it. I think you've done so many things this year that have just been, I don't know, I just feel like you're really digging in.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah. The latest was, that was really the hardest thing I've ever done, I think, in my life, pretty much, was letting all that go. but then it's gone it's okay it's gone it's gone yeah it's great yeah it was great well that's the
Trenton Reynolds: crazy thing with stuff like that right is like you build it up so much in the moment and in your mind and then then you wake up the next morning and it's like feel free you're okay you know life goes on and And yeah, you feel free.
That's fantastic.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: You've got this. You've got this, Trent. Maybe this 2017 is going to be your year. I think it is. This is my year.
2017.
Trenton Reynolds: Okay, one more question for you. Can you name three... As I was thinking about this conversation, these were the thoughts that I was having. Three names of extroverts. Not people, like just names that are extrovert names.
Oh, funny.
Uh...
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Jack, Steve.
Trenton Reynolds: Jack, Steve. Jack for sure, yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah, maybe not Steve. Jack.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Okay, you go. What's one for you? Jack, Steve. Or what about a female name? We'll go back and forth. Jack's one for me. What are you going to say? throw in. Kevin.
Trenton Reynolds: Maybe it's like the hard consonant sounds.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah. I was saying, that's so funny you brought this up because I was photographing this piece that had this guy that I used to date photograph him when he was little. And this guy's name is Steve. And we were saying, I was saying what kid is named Steve? or like no no baby like there's a I'm going to name my baby Steve such an adult name it is this is short for Steven but whatever um uh Jenny
Trenton Reynolds: Jenny extroverted name
yeah
Trenton Reynolds: Shara I knew a Shara that's an extroverted name
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's the example of an introverted.
Trenton Reynolds: Fiona introverted name, okay. I would say Matthew is introverted and Matt is extroverted.
Trenton Reynolds: Yeah. So like the shortening, or Benjamin introvert, Ben. I don't know, actually, Ben might be introverted too. Yeah, that's really.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Jessica feels extroverted.
Trenton Reynolds: Yes. Yes. Jessica, Jessica is definitely extroverted.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: That's a really funny question. It's kind of like Carmen, Carmen.
introverted
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I had a horse name Carmen
Trenton Reynolds: did you oh horse names that are introverted horses versus extroverted horses
Sabrina Ward Harrison: there's totally introverted horses that's so funny
Trenton Reynolds: cinnamon would be would that be extrovert or introvert
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I was thinking extrovert I know it kind of feels extroverted because it's probably going to be a red horse and typically red horses have a lot more fire to them commonly. I think if I remember correctly.
Trenton Reynolds: Or old boy, I would say.
Trenton Reynolds: Oh my God, old boy?
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Did you know a horse named old boy?
Trenton Reynolds: No, it just sounded like.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Wait till the day you start getting called old boy at 7-Eleven. Old boy. Here you go, old boy.
Trenton Reynolds: Here you go.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Old boy, which way are you leaning?
Trenton Reynolds: Oh, old boy's extrovert for sure.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: See, I think introvert, I think it's a solemn, lonely old horse named old boy.
Trenton Reynolds: Oh, I did know, I have met a horse named Tux. Tux is definitely extrovert.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Yeah, Tux is definitely extroverted. uh my horses i never named this is the horses i had and they i didn't they came with names i'd carmen honey honey carmen slick no honey carmen stretch and slick
Trenton Reynolds: Oh, God.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Stretch.
Trenton Reynolds: That's an extrovert name.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Stretch and a really, really long back.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: I am stretch yep
Trenton Reynolds: thanks for listening this has been a a deep dive
deep dive
Trenton Reynolds: just want to shout out to all our people out there all those introverts totally love you and you can find show notes for this episode at roominthetrees.com we're going to be posting some of the links and things that we talked about today some videos and So check those out. And if you wouldn't mind, it would be really helpful if you would go to iTunes on your computer if you're having a hard time on your phone. And look us up, rate us, and type us a review. We really appreciate your help in helping us reach more people.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: And I am loving the people that are coming to the True Living Experience in June. Such wonderful women. And when you sign up, there's these questions about what your experience, what your creative life is like. And I just really love that. reading each of them and each person seems to be an introvert. I believe so, which I just love. So it's going to be such a wonderful time. Are there still spots open? There are a few spots open, yes.
Trenton Reynolds: I saw a couple more people signed up this week.
Sabrina Ward Harrison: Very cool. Very wonderful.