WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:19.640 ♪ It is Friday, April 29th, 2016. This is Room in the Trees, a podcast about laughter. and beginnings. Much nicer, right? 00:00:21.760 --> 00:01:04.540 It's a podcast about living life as a creative person, good and bad. Today is more about the good. We had a lot of fun recording this episode. The following was recorded on April 8th. 2016. This is episode number three. Sounds woo woo. Room in the Trees is hosted by Sabrina Ward Harrison and me, Trent Reynolds. This podcast is made possible by you. If you like what you hear, please consider showing your support by becoming our patron for as little as a dollar a month at patreon.com backslash room. 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:51.660 I felt like the conversation we had before starting in on today's topic might interest some of you, so I'm going to include it with this episode after the closing comments and music. So a little extra room in the trees is there for you. If you want it, keep listening after we wrap up. Thank you all for listening. We've gotten a lot of really encouraging feedback. It's wonderful to realize there are people out there in the world that find resonance with or that can identify with the things that we talk about on this show. I'm grateful for you and hope more than anything, you feel inspired to go make a mess and explore. And now we begin. 00:01:53.960 --> 00:01:55.140 What'd you find this week? 00:01:56.140 --> 00:02:03.420 I found a beautiful wicker chair that swirls. I think I mentioned it. 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:06.500 What are your feelings about wicker in general? 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:08.560 Are you a... 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:13.700 Well... It seems to me like there are wicker people in this world and non-wicker people. 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:27.560 I'm not really a wicker person because they usually kind of break and then the little bits of wicker stick into you a little bit. Wicker stick. 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:34.060 Yeah. 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:38.000 Oh, gosh. Wicker stickers is the... 00:02:39.580 --> 00:02:40.380 What's on the mind? 00:02:41.220 --> 00:02:59.340 Well, it's a very heavy chair. It's surprisingly... Sorry, I'm just looking at it right now. I'm going to describe it and see when I send the picture if I've described it well. I haven't tried to describe it. It is natural wood color with probably a honey maple finish. 00:03:00.500 --> 00:03:01.100 Um... 00:03:01.100 --> 00:03:27.700 it has a wicker back, but then a bracing of wood and a wooden seat. That's kind of has a bit of a sculpt for your bottom, like it curved in. So it sort of looks like a real office chair. And there's pivoting kind of rotates on this pretty heavy. Pole with these very heavy grounded for wooden, 00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:29.100 uh, 00:03:51.900 --> 00:04:02.180 But the funny thing is, so I found it under a beautiful tree at the park and now I'm kind of feeling guilty, like I should just take it back there. 00:04:02.180 --> 00:04:03.180 It was. 00:04:03.180 --> 00:04:09.800 Well, do you think somebody was putting it there for you to take or was it just like, this is where this wicker chair belongs? 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:25.600 I think I need to take it back. It was right beside the train tracks, but, you know, it was under a sweet tree. And then I had my dogs at the same time. They're like, what are you carrying with us home? They were just terrified. Lucy's like, I'm not walking with you. 00:04:25.760 --> 00:04:29.000 I'm like, come on. 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:43.660 It was surprisingly really, really heavy. So sometimes, you know, I must say, finding things when you have dogs with you is not as satisfying because you feel like you're doing a bad thing. 00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:46.940 Do you feel their judgment? 00:04:47.640 --> 00:04:53.100 No, I feel that they're just like, what's this huge thing? 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:56.220 Yeah. 00:04:56.200 --> 00:05:02.080 So, I just have to share a few of these thoughts from Reddit. 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:03.100 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:05:04.780 --> 00:05:23.560 Okay. So, it's this part of Reddit at the top, and it said, I think it's called... kind of deep thoughts in the shower. And it can't be like anything graphic or, you know, a joke. It just has to be something you just thought like, wow, I've never thought of that. 00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:30.300 The one that you texted earlier is hilarious. 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:34.620 Okay. 00:05:36.620 --> 00:05:38.960 So that one, do you want to say that one? What was that one? 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:41.800 I'm going to get it wrong if I try to remember exactly. 00:05:41.800 --> 00:06:04.400 the end of the text not in front of me so you go ahead so it says a knee is basically a very large knuckle um people who have lost one of their eyes have to look at their nose all the time um 00:06:24.200 --> 00:06:26.200 Okay. 00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:39.280 Let me just... 00:06:39.280 --> 00:06:41.200 Okay. I hate... 00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:47.700 Okay. 00:06:47.600 --> 00:07:25.160 I hate when people say tuna fish sandwich. I don't say I'm having a chicken bird or a beef sandwich. I don't say I'm having a chicken bird or a beef mammal sandwich. What? 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:38.800 *laughter* 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:39.840 That's funny. 00:07:40.440 --> 00:07:40.940 Okay. 00:07:43.340 --> 00:07:49.400 And then two last deep thoughts was, I wonder if I've seen every single time a clock can display. 00:07:53.700 --> 00:07:54.300 Hmm. 00:07:56.380 --> 00:08:02.140 And the second one is, your future self is watching you right now through memories. 00:08:04.200 --> 00:08:08.220 Wow. That's a good one. Isn't that good? 00:08:09.580 --> 00:08:12.580 So everyone go to Reddit and shower thoughts. 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:15.140 Shower thoughts. 00:08:19.260 --> 00:08:24.280 We're going to segue into talking about our kind of getting started. 00:08:27.940 --> 00:08:52.800 Do you have a set process? Like do you take five minutes to meditate and then get situated and like do you have things that i was trying to think about that when you brought that up is how do i get started and i'm not sure if i there are things that i try to do to get myself i don't know you go first i'm curious to hear what you have to say about that 00:08:52.800 --> 00:10:47.380 Well, it's more noticing things because ultimately we all kind of have these windows of time that kind of our sweet spot of, you know, if you have a window to work, you want to just... get into it as, you know, as loosely and naturally and fluidly as you can. And for years of doing this, I've just noticed little things like I can't work with like tight jeans on and shoes. Like that was, that wouldn't work. Like I need to feel physically like, comfortable. I really notice, and even if I'm working outside, I don't like wearing shoes. I maybe wear kind of heavy slippers or heavy socks, but I want my feet, everything to feel loose. I don't like my hair because I have such long hair, very short hair, but I can't stand my hair. Like I need to have some sort of bandana or like something over. I don't like, I can't have my hair on my face. I can't have loose sleeves. Like everything has to be kind of rolled up to my elbows. I really noticed that my work window is more like the late afternoon light, like about three o'clock to five o'clock. depending on the season, like in summer, maybe up to 6.30 or 7. Probably 6.30 is like my real creating time, and then I usually need to like step outside and take a walk, especially at twilight, you know, turning out to twilight, like sunset, twilight time. I try to be in nature. 00:10:48.060 --> 00:10:48.560 Hmm. 00:10:48.300 --> 00:11:32.900 And then I usually will come back and work in the evening, but it would be probably more around like maybe 9 o'clock to maybe 10:30 or 11. I might, and at that time, I'm usually listening to some kind of maybe a book on tape, audio, or a podcast. I find my mornings are more, I am not someone that wakes up and gets going. I just am not, I'm not that person. But I also don't, like I wake up really early. So like last night I went to bed about, I actually downloaded a sleep app to try to track my sleeping because 00:11:32.900 --> 00:11:38.900 Is it one of those apps that tracks how much movement? Yeah. 00:11:38.900 --> 00:11:39.900 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:39.900 --> 00:11:55.140 That's cool. I didn't press the right buttons last night, but I did see that I slept six and a half hours, which usually I sleep like... I won't even talk about sleep with you anymore because it's just... I mean, I don't know what your average sleep is, but... 00:11:55.140 --> 00:11:59.600 Six and a half is not very much for... No, it was pretty short. 00:12:02.180 --> 00:12:49.860 And I know my mom always took a quiet time in the afternoon when I was growing up in high school. And I know today, thinking of the podcast and getting up so early, I thought, you know, I forget about just a power nap, like 20 minutes, closing your eyes, can really reboot you. Like, for example, you, well, you didn't really have a break after the taxes, but, you know, really stepping away and remembering not to just try to go into another zone of like, okay, I'm going to be now this person and be on. And it's critical to remember to... again remember we talked about Mr. Rogers neighborhood like he put on his he took off his jacket he put on his sweater he changed his shoes 00:12:49.860 --> 00:15:09.500 there's something to that physical transformation that got him in the right space I think I've mentioned this before in other conversations but definitely not in the last whatever conversations that we've recorded. There's an Art 21 episode about Ed Ruscha. And it's something that I've shared with classes before, but it... And I'll put the link to it in the show notes, but it was so... It was so real to me and there was this moment where it's him in his studio and he's talking about his normal day. And it's like he says, "Well, in the morning I kind of start out doing this thing and I kind of draw on this for a little bit and then then after an hour or so I move over here and then he kind of walks five feet and there's another thing that's kind of on the floor and he's looking at and working on. And he just kind of mumbles his way through this, the day he kind of puts together or talks about it, it's just like, he just kind of walks around this studio space and he kind of pokes at all these different things. And I think that's kind of how- - Yeah, that resonates, sorry, that resonates for you. - For me specifically, I think my mind kind of works that way, it's very cyclical. I will chew on something for a while and then I'll kind of move on to something else. And I've found that if I spend too much time focusing on one thing, like if I do a full day just on one painting, I don't come away feeling as happy with the painting. When you get too zeroed in on something, it's like you get too close to it. You become unable to see the larger picture. I don't know for lack of a better way to describe it. But when I find that when I just take little bites of things throughout the day and keep myself cycling through different things, it keeps me from getting too over-focused. And then I can come back, you know, after a couple hours to the starting point and come to it with fresh eyes and also without all the built-up tension, you know, over having worked on it for a long time. 00:15:09.500 --> 00:15:26.920 - Yes, so what do you, I'm curious a bit about your process because you're working, while you're working with acrylics and oils and different, do you, would you say you sort of set up your palette and then maybe work on all, a few paintings with the same paints already out? 00:15:28.180 --> 00:16:44.700 Set up? - Yes, yeah, well, and also like I've been working on this portrait of this artist I visited recently and it just started getting really uptight and it lost there was there was kind of a looseness and a freshness to it at the beginning. I posted a picture on Instagram of it and I was liking it and then I kind of killed it it just got too uptight too overworked and so when that started happening it it was I just needed to stop painting and yeah I did a little 5 by 7 painting of the same guy but I did it really fast with the same same paint same palette of colors but having it be a completely separate thing that I wasn't invested in at all. I don't know, it kind of broke up that wall that I was starting to build in the first painting. So then, you know, that being able to break that up and then come back with what I just, the energy I just created in this other painting helps me see where to go next, or at least gives me the courage to maybe destroy the thing that I've started to get precious about or overwork. Does that make sense? Can you say a little bit more about that as far as, 00:16:44.740 --> 00:16:49.760 so you will do a loose, because what's the emotional feeling when you're like, oh my gosh, 00:16:49.800 --> 00:17:40.220 I just totally overworked that. Well, what happens is I get into the zone, right? Like this mental space where you're not even thinking hardly. It's just time passes, hours go by. And then I'll come up after, you know, two hours of painting on this thing and realize that it's just gotten really stale. you know just too too neat i'm trying to resolve everything everything looks kind of evenly dealt with and i don't know there's just no life it's just i don't know just boring um and that's one of the reasons that i that for me personally it works well to just keep moving around to different projects is... Yeah. Because if I get too much into the zone and stop thinking and stop engaging and just kind of go on autopilot, that's when I tend to overwork and kill things. 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:48.780 So what do you do once you step away and then you maybe sleep on it and you come back to it and you look at it, you're like, oh, really? 00:17:49.460 --> 00:17:51.420 Yeah. What do you do? 00:17:52.260 --> 00:18:39.300 I've come up with a couple different ways to destroy, to break things down. When it gets boring, there's not a whole lot you can do. You got to tear it back down, you know? because what's happened is it's gotten too locked in. Yeah. So I take-- I use sandpaper a lot. I'll just sand the thing down. And it's just a way for me to mentally and literally destroy it and get away from it. and start over. I mean, there's still a lot of information there for me to incorporate. - Yeah, yeah. - I've just taken away the preciousness. 00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:47.900 - Yeah, it feels really good. I've used an electric sander on stuff and it's just, you can end up going a little. 00:19:15.700 --> 00:19:32.120 fractures the because I just get really smooth and pristine with with yeah with things and it just looks almost like Disney cartoony so anyway that's what I do 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:36.660 and then I think you've talked about your outfit choices pretty much so you were in high school. 00:19:37.840 --> 00:20:34.600 Check. Got that covered. Yeah, I'm pretty much I don't know. I do have ambitions to be more more conscious of of my style decisions, but I just... No, no, you're not that kind of person. No. I don't know. I have... I'm just being comfortable. Yeah. This is my uniform. I wear jeans, and I've found that Gap jeans are... They just... They do the job. They're comfy. They fit me well. And any time I've tried other brands, it just doesn't fit. feel quite right. So it's not, I don't go for the gap jeans because of brand loyalty or style or anything like that. They're just the ones that I know that they are softer. They're not like big, heavy denim, you know, very, very friendly to my sensitive skin. 00:20:34.600 --> 00:20:35.820 Very comfy. 00:20:36.040 --> 00:20:37.820 It's true, though. You know. 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:38.980 Yep. 00:20:39.380 --> 00:21:27.040 So we always hit the sales rack looking for the Gap jeans on sale. T. And then T-shirts. T-shirts. I like just plain colors and... pretty boring. And then I've got black boots. Yeah. Uh, for a long time I had these echo boots that were just the most comfortable boots ever. And I bought, I had those for like 10 years. I got two or three pair that lasted me that long. And then, uh, the quality started going down on those. And so I, the most, my most recent, uh, boots are what is it, Red Tips or something like that? It's an American brand. Maybe you can take a photo of them. 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:38.780 Because it's true, as you get older, also like, I want to have more support in my feet. And I did notice when I had these new sneakers, I was like, I'm wearing these sneakers for the first time while I'm making art. 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:39.660 Yeah. 00:21:39.600 --> 00:22:07.640 sneakers it's a funny word sounds very like 80s I got some new sneakers but sneakers sneakers um just a flashback to high school Do you remember anything about the style that I had? You had the same style, but do you remember anything about the style I had as an artist, as a student? 00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:09.020 Oh, goodness. 00:22:09.520 --> 00:22:13.580 I think I was pretty normal. I think I wore Gap. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:28.240 I don't remember you being especially... Interesting, creative. Well, I don't know. What would you call that? Like... idiosyncratic or like, I don't know, abnormal. 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:42.400 Yeah, I wasn't, but it was all under the surface because I was voted most random. Yeah. Wait, what? Yeah. What did you say? I was voted most random. Oh, you were voted most random. 00:22:42.400 --> 00:23:00.500 I got a vote of most something, but I can't remember what it was. Oh, it's really nice and kind. It was like most likely to get married or something like that. Really? Yeah. It wasn't like a cool one. 00:23:01.580 --> 00:23:04.640 It was the first time they ever had most random, by the way. 00:23:05.360 --> 00:23:06.900 Which is in itself random. 00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:18.680 right yeah I guess kind of anyway what about music I think we're both I think we're both pretty on to podcasts and things I'm trying to remember to listen to music which interestingly 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:41.880 enough I've I've talked to a lot of I've had some conversations recently with other artists in the area friends of mine that everybody is is onto this podcast thing you know like it happens regularly where somebody will say oh have you heard do you listen to this podcast or have you this episode. I think it's like there's a lot of people listening to podcasts. 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.180 Well, I think it's comforting. 00:23:48.780 --> 00:24:04.900 Yeah. And especially when you're doing something, I think that is so isolated, you know, like you're making a painting or you're in your studio, you're kind of by yourself with your own thoughts. So for me, it's nice to feel like I'm part of a, you know, or listening to or... 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:07.700 You're kind of a part of the conversation. 00:24:08.300 --> 00:25:01.340 Yeah. Well, I mean, there's the illusion that it's like a real conversation as opposed to something more polished conversation. you know like a yeah like a book yeah I also listen to a lot of audio books too though do you listen to sci-fi or what uh I do I listen to man what have I been listening to recently I'm gonna tell you my most I'm gonna open up my audible app. I'm a subscriber to audible.com, which is fantastic. I love it. Um, I listened to no logo, which is nonfiction by Naomi Klein. It's about, uh, like advertising and corporate, um, corporate identities like worldwide and how they're affected, different economies and stuff like that. Really interesting book. And I listened to Sabriel. 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:08.580 Just to clarify, these are books not podcasts. These are books, yeah. Books on audible.com. 00:25:09.300 --> 00:25:38.100 Sabriel, which is fantasy, fantasy fiction. It's a book that is one of my wife's favorite books that I'd never read, so I was kind of curious to listen to it. It was like... Is it like a series? Yeah, I think it's a trilogy. I can't remember. That's cool. Yeah. And she has a... She had a Hotmail account that she named after one of the characters in this book from like high school. Oh, wow. Anyway, so I was kind of curious to go back and listen to it 00:25:38.100 --> 00:26:00.820 I kind of just a quick thing to say about I think the idea of listening to I mean talk about getting yourself back in the studio if you're following something like that where you just you know you have a reason to go in like what's the next chapter and work that way would be a great motivator to get into 00:26:00.820 --> 00:26:14.940 it it is it is I actually yeah I'll go to And I think this is fairly common. Like if I'm in the car and I'm listening to an audio book and I'm really into it, like I'll drive around the block a few times to finish a chapter. 00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:16.340 Yeah. 00:26:16.780 --> 00:26:21.260 So I think it is something that can kind of keep you focused and on track. 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.500 Yeah. 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:45.700 And I would put that I would love for if we have a message board or something people to suggest because sometimes you don't want something super heavy. I listen to a lot of nonfiction and sometimes really getting into a well told story is important. a great way to drop into your work beginning. 00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:47.240 For sure. 00:26:48.460 --> 00:28:10.960 Okay, what else? Well, at least for me, there's something important about having multiple things going on at the same time and not just multiple things uh that are the same but like multiple things of different types so for instance like if you come into the studio and you've got a big painting right that is it feels overwhelming and you and it's like it can be really hard or daunting to jump right into that but if you have like uh little pieces of paper and that you can kind of pick up and start sketching on or a painting that you don't really care about that you can just kind of start messing around with and push forward a little bit. You know, having different options for yourself to enter into making. you know, to getting started can be so helpful and you can kind of ramp up. And I guess that's, that's what I find that I do is I kind of ramp up is I'll come into the studio and I'll find this little, little doodle that I started and I'll poke at that for a little bit. And then I'll move. Maybe then I'll be into the mindset to where I can tackle this thing, you know, this larger thing or more, I don't know, more, daunting thing that I've got to work on. So like the dog. 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:28.600 I have a question about that. It makes me think about, you know, so for you, you were kind of naturally good at drawing and, you know, sketching. For me, the idea of sketching sounds horrifying. 00:28:31.600 --> 00:28:32.100 Yeah. 00:28:31.600 --> 00:29:06.440 But so I think artists, creative people come at it from different angles where for someone like we have different ways of entering into the creative process. And I think there's I don't know kind of how I don't know if I'll get to it this week, but there's something about. you know, it's probably very centering for you to sketch and focusing where if I was told to sketch, I'd be so, I can't, I can't sketch, you know, I don't like it. 00:29:07.900 --> 00:29:10.100 What do you start with then? Like you come in and... 00:29:11.900 --> 00:29:26.880 I start with usually just sketching. big bolt of fabric, big heavy paper rolled on a roll, maybe a drop cloth that I paint into it. 00:29:31.220 --> 00:29:31.860 It's... 00:29:31.860 --> 00:29:35.900 Are you... Do you have a big brush and really 00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:54.020 a ton of paint or never have a big brush i i need some brushes if anyone wants to donate some brushes i never have brushes they always i never wash them i don't know how to clean them right i just use really use my hands i use my hands i don't have one big brush in this house so you'll 00:29:54.020 --> 00:29:59.280 so you'll take a tube of paint or and you'll just like pour it on there and start yeah pushing it 00:29:59.280 --> 00:30:34.360 not a tube not a tube not a tube definitely just house paint yeah got it And I never choose the color. Like I definitely use the found, you know, upcycled mixed paint that's, you know, not mixed right. And I always feel like it's... kind of leads me to it sounds you know woo woo but woo woo but like I found this in the basement I found this fantastic turquoise it's like an enamel turquoise and I just don't 00:30:34.360 --> 00:30:39.000 and uh I don't I I 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:54.000 Even back in high school, I never really had art supplies with me. I was always using Mila's tub of oil pastels and cut-out mat boards. Not that I was making anything. I was more into the photography. 00:30:54.000 --> 00:31:41.700 What's interesting to me right there is because that mimics or that seems like it's consistent with your, like even the your love of finding things. Yeah. Maybe it's because there's a certain amount of anxiety or a certain amount of pressure of accumulating art supplies, right? Well, which pencil do I buy? Which brush do I buy? Oh, yeah. All that stuff. but you've chosen not to even deal with that right like no maybe that that feels like a sufficient enough barrier that if you tried it would just like you wouldn't get anything done instead you've created a mindset and a practice where you don't have to deal with that you just start 00:31:41.700 --> 00:32:05.860 you know because it's so enjoyable it's so but i i can i completely appreciate other people that have a maybe a you know a little bit different where that's really they you know i i teach a lot of workshops that have people that are very into supplies and love talking to each other about different supplies and where they got them and this pen versus that pen and this pencil and that 00:32:05.860 --> 00:32:07.500 i'm definitely one of those type 00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:24.000 For sure. Yeah. And I really get their enthusiasm and interest in that. And I'm just totally not wired that way. And my parents are. I don't know. My grandmother's not. My grandfather wasn't. 00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:30.500 So... 00:32:30.500 --> 00:33:24.740 It always seems, you know, kind of, to me, it's a very, creating art is such a physical, physical thing for me. And it's tied into, like, I think because of the photography part of the exploration part of following the light and being and working in fresh air and... Yeah. And again, it comes back to kind of a spiritual or just something where it's kind of all... I always feel like that was exactly the pencil I was supposed to find. That's perfect. Not like find literally on the street sometimes, but just like I just have these things in my little cup of stuff to work with. 00:33:26.020 --> 00:33:26.520 Yeah. 00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:34.360 I don't know, that fits you. I think that's so interesting. I'd never really thought of that. 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:55.720 Like the actual supplies and art process, the technique, it's all a part of... like your larger identity, which I guess it's, it is for me as well. I just had never really considered. 00:33:57.220 --> 00:34:03.000 Yeah. I wonder if I give you a handful of random stuff in a envelope, 00:34:04.040 --> 00:34:05.000 like, 00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:12.900 you know, like, a lot of stuff does like the pencils aren't sharpened you know the stuff is 00:34:12.900 --> 00:35:16.280 kind of janky and broken but I like it that way yeah that's that's part of it right like yeah whereas I find I find a lot of satisfaction in having a point nine lead pencil a point seven lead pencil and a point five you know like and seeing what I can do with, you know, the minute differences that you can get with, you know, different, even just different point sizes of a pencil lead. Anyway. Which I would like to learn about sometime. No, no, you wouldn't. That's the thing is, I think you saying that is like me saying, like, I want to be better about my fashion choices, you know, like no like i kind of do and i like the idea i like the idea of it if you ever wore skinny jeans or like tapered pants we can talk about tapered pants in the 90s i i can did you are pegging your 00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:22.300 pants yeah that's a california thing oh um 00:35:22.300 --> 00:35:35.700 But I don't know. I think it's a fair analogy, though, to say that, like, I just don't think it would ultimately do anything for you or add to your sense of satisfaction or enjoyment. 00:35:35.940 --> 00:35:42.760 Well, I think, well, I get a little bit of this voice in my head that thinks, 00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.600 you know, you know, 00:35:47.600 --> 00:35:54.320 I should be working with better materials, you know, like, is this archival? 00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:55.500 Archival, right, yeah. 00:35:57.580 --> 00:36:09.160 But that whole notion of something being archival is kind of antithetical to your you. 00:36:10.100 --> 00:36:12.200 Yeah. Yeah. 00:36:12.200 --> 00:36:24.220 All right. Well, we've gone long. I think we should wrap it up. Do you have an assignment for me this week that we've talked about in previous weeks? What should I do? What am I 00:36:24.220 --> 00:36:35.500 doing this week? Can you fill in about the thing that happened yesterday? Okay. I want to report, we don't have to give an assignment, but I think we both, I have to share something too. 00:36:36.900 --> 00:38:44.280 Okay. So no assignment this week, but we will have stories to share. I would like, yeah. Do you have a story to share? Yes. The story to share is that I got an email asking me to schedule an interview for a faculty position at Otis College of Art and Design. that I, a job I applied to several weeks ago and I didn't expect to hear back from. So I got in a phone interview and then that phone interview was yesterday and that was successful and I've been passed on to the second round of interviews. So. It is huge, huge. Even if I don't get the job, to have heard back from an application is so validating because it's been two or three years now that I've been applying to full-time teaching jobs and usually I hear nothing. It's crickets. all the way. I had no word. And so to hear back at all, but then also to hear back and have it be an invitation to come to an interview was just so relieving. I don't know. It was so gratifying to be able to tell Laura that, to be able to tell my father-in-law and my parents and my brothers, you know, like, yes, it just felt so. I obviously, obviously I'm really hopeful that I'll, that I'll get the job but it so far and i think do you feel good like you would do you would be good for it i think that it's a good fit it's it's for their uh foundations program so uh first year college kids and it's uh it's something that my past experience has has kind of prepared me for it would be an ideal situation so uh anyway so wish me luck the next uh next round of interviews or the next interview is on tuesday so i'll report back next week and it's gonna be over skype it's gonna be over skype and it's gonna oh my god what are you gonna wear what am i gonna wear oh my god I'm going to wear my apron. 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.460 And you have to really do a practice test with lighting and stuff. 00:38:47.780 --> 00:38:48.300 Oh, you think? 00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:50.800 So you don't look totally... Well, just don't look like you're in a dungeon. 00:38:51.100 --> 00:38:51.600 Right. 00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:57.760 And, like, strategically place paintings behind me or something like that. 00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:09.500 Yeah, but figure out how to have a really nice... Like, maybe you can do it... I don't know if you have a space upstairs. I don't know. Have natural... You can't... Everything's downstairs, but... Well, I'm... 00:39:09.500 --> 00:39:11.500 Like, the chance of... 00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:17.060 You can light it. Yeah. You can light it so it's just... 00:39:17.060 --> 00:39:17.560 Yep. 00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.160 That'll be good. Okay. 00:39:26.160 --> 00:39:47.060 My thing, which I don't know if we're going to report, is that someone told me to... So I haven't dated someone in a while. And I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to put myself out there for a second. Cause I don't really, I don't want to date casually, but I'm like, I'm going to say what I, 00:39:47.340 --> 00:39:47.840 you know, 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:55.700 and I read this profile, this guy, and he just said, I just want to read it out loud to you. 00:39:55.700 --> 00:39:57.900 Okay. And I'm going to say his name. 00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:07.540 he sounds like so so before you can I guess his name and if I actually guess 00:40:07.540 --> 00:40:19.900 it correctly will you tell me yeah but I'm just forget what his name is okay yeah what do you think it is no you have to tell me that profile first and then 00:40:19.900 --> 00:40:20.900 I guess. 00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:21.900 Okay, okay. 00:40:21.900 --> 00:41:25.020 Tree nerd, bike enthusiast, and all around nice guy looking for a partner in crime to go to concerts, ride bikes, crack jokes, hike, help in the garden, camp, take trips with, and relax with at the end of the day. I'm getting more and more into the homesteader kind of lifestyle and feel great about growing my own food, making useful things, and caring for my land. I'm looking for someone who sees themselves living in the country someday. I'm currently working on my master's at University of Wisconsin-Madison. I grew up about 20 minutes from Madison on a 100-acre farm and just moved back last April. I've since plunged headfirst into some fun projects, like planted a huge garden, raising 25 chickens for meat and eggs, building a woodworking shop, restoring a prairie remnant, etc. I stay busy all the time but make time for fun and friends. I play drums in a 10-piece Brazilian percussion group, ride bikes across entire states, camp as often as I can, and love spending time with my family. 00:41:28.540 --> 00:41:29.100 Whoops. 00:41:29.100 --> 00:41:53.160 yeah sounds like a good fit i know right i know okay i'm gonna guess i get two guesses okay okay my first guess is levi no no uh that's what his name should be What about David? No. 00:41:54.240 --> 00:41:54.740 No. 00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:58.300 Levi and David, okay. I will guess no more. 00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:43.880 He's not like a... And I'll send you a pic. His picture is like... Because I said someone who's just... Like, I don't want some woo-woo. I don't like skinny, woo-woo, hippie kind of people. Like, he's... he's getting his degree in like engineering and he's six feet tall and he called himself stocky i'm like yeah bring it bring it exactly are you so you're gonna contact him this is exciting i know i know well i signed up but i haven't because i just got my checking account i don't The other thing is I've never done this online stuff, but it's match.com where you have to like pay for it. So at least it's not some, and I put, oh, I should read you my profile. 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:45.600 Oh yeah, definitely. 00:42:46.120 --> 00:42:47.220 Want to hear it? Yeah. Okay. 00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:48.440 All right. 00:42:51.520 --> 00:42:52.020 Okay. 00:42:52.000 --> 00:43:32.820 So I wrote in my own words, it would be wonderful to connect with an authentic match. I'm not really into casual hooking up or dating. I'm new to this and interested in a natural and genuine relationship First in friendship, connection. So a few things I'm into, laughing really hard, road trips. I love late afternoon sunlight on the porch and being under a clear night sky. I love building forts. I treasure old barns in Springsteen. I love lakes and canoeing. I'm really passionate about creating warm, welcoming environments. I appreciate wonderful homemade meals, and I can't resist a brilliant cheeseburger. Cheers. 00:43:35.040 --> 00:43:43.400 Solid. Solid. Thanks. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I think. Yeah. 00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:50.400 Yep. Yep. So, it's kind of fun. I'm excited. 00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.240 Putting it out in the universe. - Awesome. 00:43:54.240 --> 00:43:55.900 - What? - Fun. - That's fantastic. 00:43:55.900 --> 00:44:09.700 - I know. Sometimes, right, I'm like, well, maybe I'm ready for that. I'm totally, I'm like, I'm so into living on the farm, right? Woodworking studio, done. 00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:12.300 - Got it. 00:44:12.300 --> 00:44:17.800 Got it. Takes a while to learn what you need, but okay. 00:44:18.100 --> 00:44:19.560 All right. Good work. 00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:21.720 Good work. Good podcast. 00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:24.520 Okay. 00:44:25.240 --> 00:44:49.380 Thanks for joining us. Remember, I attacked a little more conversation after this, so keep listening if you're interested. We talked about starting this week, so it's your assignment to go create. Yes. get started. Take a picture, take a walk, drag a wicker chair home, and sit on that thing. 00:44:51.860 --> 00:45:21.400 If you are enjoying Room in the Trees, again, I would ask that you consider supporting us at patreon.com backslash room, and by sharing this podcast with your friends. The website is roominthetrees.com where you can find show notes and much more. Music for this episode was provided by my brother, Brent, who is fantastic. And you should check out his music on SoundCloud. His username is dentersstagbotak. 00:45:24.100 --> 00:45:29.860 Next week episode is, it's a very important topic. We talk about boundaries. 00:45:32.120 --> 00:45:33.380 I hope you join us. 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:44.340 What happened with the dog portrait? 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:49.220 It's out of the studio. Oh my gosh. That is the update. 00:45:50.100 --> 00:45:51.700 So what happened? 00:45:51.940 --> 00:46:09.960 My life is complete again. Well, nothing much. It's been sticking around. It's just been sitting here in my studio for the last week or so. She's been out of town. And so she got back into town and came by and picked it up. She loved it. Oh, thank goodness. Paid for it. It was, yeah, it was just fun. 00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:14.680 Were you kind of trepidatious about her possibly going, yeah. 00:46:16.120 --> 00:46:41.440 I was. I mean, because we did have that little, there was a bit of an exchange where she wasn't satisfied with something and asked me to take. make some changes, which I guess is totally fair, right? I mean, if she's paying me to do something, you know, it's just that whole kind of relationship between artist and client that can get a little... frustrating. 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:46.220 And it's historically, you know, Michelangelo was commissioned, right? 00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:47.340 Yeah. 00:46:49.180 --> 00:46:50.000 There's that, 00:46:50.620 --> 00:47:02.560 that's, that's, it's, and I'm surprised it's not talked about more in the art world, you know, the process of making art, because I don't remember ever being taught about how to do it. The process 00:47:02.560 --> 00:47:06.340 of, like, interacting with a patron or a client or something like that? Yeah. 00:47:06.620 --> 00:47:08.000 Yeah. Yeah. 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:19.000 I mean, they talk about so much in advertising and design and working with clients, but as a fine artist who needs even more kind of coaching about that conversation. 00:47:19.000 --> 00:48:04.900 I think that there's a lot of that going on in the fine arts where we're just not taught how to do stuff, like basic human interaction skills. and you know like like teaching for instance there's no art education classes for grad students in painting and drawing so you get out of a grad program and you're kind of expecting well maybe I'll get a teaching job and then you go show up at a teaching job and you have no experience you have no idea how to do it yeah and they just you just kind of throw you in there but it's the same with like yeah relationship with clients like there's no class i mean i guess sometimes there's like a business practices class i remember taking one of those but it was worthless they didn't teach me 00:48:04.900 --> 00:48:41.460 anything? I think it would be really beneficial to have a real communications course, like really interdisciplinary, communicating about your work, talking about your work. I mean, I guess I went to CCAC, California College of the Arts, now it's called in the Bay Area, and I really think the foundational courses that were some of the most because they were so integrated with time and media. I mean, that's when I first started even writing and keeping a journal. I didn't keep one until that freshman year. I took a life stories class. 00:48:42.060 --> 00:48:43.400 Really? I didn't know that. 00:48:45.000 --> 00:49:11.400 And learning how to really talk and express and communicate your thoughts and being encouraged to think. beyond what you want to look like, but what it means. And that transcends into when you're doing commission, you need to be able to evoke and have a real meaning behind what you're doing. Like, yeah. 00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:13.740 because that's going to come through in the work. 00:49:14.240 --> 00:49:14.740 For sure. 00:49:15.640 --> 00:49:53.200 Well, it's also, I don't know, that's such a fraught relationship, I think, because they have expectations of what they want you to do, but I think they also are invested in you as an artist and in your kind of authorship, your integrity or your independence as an artist. so when you do something they want you to do you right they want you to do however you you know do whatever you need to do but then they've also got these kind of ideas of what it's going to end up looking like and when it doesn't match you know when those two things don't match it's like 00:49:53.200 --> 00:50:03.860 because they don't know they don't know also they don't know how to express they want a feeling ultimately 00:50:03.860 --> 00:51:06.820 and they don't realize that well I think people don't even realize that they have expectations expectations or they have something that they are a feeling that they're going after. And so not only do they not know how to communicate that, they don't even realize that they have it, you know? So it's like, I don't know. Yeah, it's, it's, it would be nice to. to get some heads up on that kind of stuff. Anyway, so that was definitely the case with the dog portrait. She definitely, she saw other paintings that I had done and really liked them. And so she came to me and said, I really like this stuff. Would you do one for me? So she's coming to me having seen my work and it was like, yeah, do what you do, right? But then I show her kind of the work in progress and she's got... you know, obviously didn't match up. And that's when she starts giving me just do a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And then it starts feeling like I no longer am, 00:51:07.120 --> 00:51:23.000 you know, doing my work. And well, and then it's also different because you're doing something that's, I mean, I've never done a commission that was about drawing a dog or a person or anything like that. 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:23.840 - Yeah. 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:29.300 - Yeah, I mean the notes she would have for me about the way I would draw her dog. 00:51:29.300 --> 00:52:01.640 - Well, and portraits in general, whether it's an animal or a person. - It's so complex, yeah. - Yeah, because they know the person intimately and they know them not just from that single photograph, they've seen them from every single angle, multiple times and multiple seasons of their lives. So it's like the degree that they're sensitive to any inaccuracy in your depiction of the person is obviously much higher. And it just, and you know, it's just like, they can see it and it's like, it's just not right. But of course you have no, no way to know if it's right or not. Cause you've never even met the person. 00:52:02.780 --> 00:52:11.420 And that's where getting the most, I think my lessons as far as. and I think for you because weren't you given a picture that was kind of like a flash photo 00:52:11.420 --> 00:52:41.120 like you didn't get. It was a horrible picture and the dog is dead so so it's not like I could go and set up an appointment which is what I did with my other pet portraits is I actually went to the person's house and I took the pictures myself because I knew that without good reference it's not going to be a good painting you know like Anyway, so it's way too much on a very trivial matter. 00:52:43.120 --> 00:52:48.240 I have a few thoughts. Can I share a few thoughts about commissions too? 00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:48.980 Please. 00:52:49.220 --> 00:52:54.260 Because I just found my notes from the last one I did because I did one about a year and a half ago. 00:52:56.020 --> 00:52:56.520 Yeah. 00:52:56.500 --> 00:53:54.360 I must have done about 20. It was when we first started recording it. I don't know. It was when I first moved to Madison. And I, oh my gosh, I must have done 23 paintings on top of themselves. And I, oh my gosh. And with paper and intricate, and I loved it. And I should have just, that's why I think, these are a few thoughts. I think commissions, you've got to be, you've got to have other pieces going at the same time because you get zeroed in and then you're spending hours and hours and then you end up painting over the whole thing. where if you can kind of spread, like I liked what I was doing in that, but it never, it came out in other pieces later. But I think if I had loosened up and been working on five pieces at once and that commission was part of it. 00:53:54.720 --> 00:53:55.220 Right. 00:53:56.680 --> 00:54:57.840 But it just got buried. And by the end, you know, she, and another lesson was just, you know, working with a couple, she was telling me what she wanted, but then she went to her husband. He's like, I don't really like color. I'm like, okay. well, I'm the wrong person to hire. And so I ended up being mostly navy blue. And I had these... I just saw recently these photos of it that I had taken with my phone before it. And so really... like I just got a commission to do something with a couple. And I said, I want to have both of you in this. And I want you each to, I sent them a text said, I want three textures, images, images, like textural, just like three to eight different things that are evocative to you. I want you to give them to me. I don't want you to tell me whose is whose. And I want to just take that in. 00:54:59.520 --> 00:55:01.000 Okay. That's a good idea. 00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:08.240 Yeah, because also you can get into like I can already tell they're a bit of like, well, he wants that and I want this. 00:55:08.240 --> 00:55:10.240 Oh, good times. 00:55:10.240 --> 00:55:11.240 Good times. 00:55:11.240 --> 00:55:15.000 That is just crazy making right there. 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:25.520 But it's a fun it is a can be a fun kind of project to get into that. you know, I like the problem solving part of it, but. 00:55:25.680 --> 00:55:56.080 Right. Well, and it's interesting to think of it as a conversation between the three of you, right? Where everybody's contributing and you're trying to have to negotiate all these different, you know, appetites and tastes and, and fit them into a single piece. I, I, I can see that being very fulfilling and satisfying just the process. working through that. But if they're not willing to participate in that conversation and just want to react to something as it goes along, then it just gets frustrating. 00:55:56.680 --> 00:57:16.040 And that's what the last one, I think I remember telling you about the one that was the big five-foot Treasure Island one. Yeah. and talk about people that are good communicators. And I'm like, that's why they're successful people in the world, because they know how to communicate and empower you and trust you and make you feel, I mean, he's a producer. I mean, just like they're good at being human beings professionally in the world. Because they really did the perfect balance of you've got this we trust you this is we they really gave me the things like really the things they really truly treasured and photographs that were really did mean something and weren't somehow forced and it was such a good you know like that's what i that's the best that's that's where it's But I think it was like I have the notes from that right now in front of me and just really establishing what was the most important and then writing that down so they knew that these were the, these is what we agreed upon that were the critical elements. 00:57:18.680 --> 00:57:20.200 Yeah. Okay. 00:57:20.200 --> 00:57:46.200 It's interesting. In thinking of it now, just listening to you describe your experience with these different people, how would you teach a class like that? I guess you could kind of go through some case studies or examples of- Yeah, like mock commissions, mock- You do role playing on different- Yeah. Extreme personalities that you might come across. 00:57:46.200 --> 00:57:47.780 What would you do? 00:57:49.100 --> 00:57:57.360 I think it would be a really just a good for a professor that was a communications, linguistics. 00:57:58.540 --> 00:58:30.720 I think maybe even having a class where you actually, like the students, you bring people in that want artwork done and actually do it, you know, like, yeah. maybe it would just be like there would be a preset set of parameters for what they could be asking for. So it's not like they're asking for this huge project, but just have the students go through the process of talking to somebody about a piece and what's expected and. 00:58:31.100 --> 00:58:31.820 I don't know. 00:58:31.900 --> 00:58:33.160 It's like Project Runaway. 00:58:33.740 --> 00:58:34.380 Have you ever watched that? 00:58:35.100 --> 00:58:36.500 I know of it. 00:58:36.500 --> 00:58:44.420 I love that. I just watched it this morning. But that kind of assignment-based, kind of you've got this challenge you have to do, 00:58:44.880 --> 00:58:46.500 but... 00:58:46.500 --> 00:58:52.660 Something like that. I don't think you or I would be the teachers for that class. 00:58:54.860 --> 00:59:01.220 Clearly, clearly we have not mastered that particular skill. 00:59:01.220 --> 00:59:02.100 Yeah. 00:59:02.100 --> 00:59:17.100 Well, here's the interesting thing because you're, so you were interested in doing a portrait from when we did the room in the trees and I'm thinking, how are we going to do that? Like you're going to paint something and I'm, what if I'm like, um, no. 00:59:17.100 --> 00:59:32.580 Yeah, you can tell me that. That's more of, I wouldn't call that more illustration than anything, you know, like making some visuals for what we're doing. But I'm not going to make a hugely polished painting. I was envisioning just a quick sketch type deal. 00:59:33.580 --> 01:00:06.700 I was thinking it was going to be like a five-foot oil painting. What if I did that? Well, I want to say something about that picture because I – and we can post the picture, but I was really – I sent it to my dad and my mom, and I really – it was so sweet to see a picture that I hadn't seen in myself. And I can tell like, you really got me like that was really like, that's what I look like when no one's around to take a picture of me. 01:00:08.460 --> 01:00:10.500 And so I, 01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:34.360 I thought it was a good picture. 01:00:34.820 --> 01:00:37.140 It's a good picture. It's me. So. 01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:39.800 Okay.