WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.240 This is Dabble On. 00:00:04.600 --> 00:01:51.700 My name is Trent Reynolds, and in this podcast, I have conversations with artists about materials. If you are enjoying this podcast and want it to continue, please subscribe or make a one-time contribution at dabbleon.com forward slash podcast. Stop the episode, go to iTunes and leave me a five-star rating and tell all your friends. The longevity of this program very much depends on your support and I thank you. In this episode, I have a conversation with Christian Reban, who I met in graduate school in Chicago many years ago. Many years ago. He makes really great paintings that are wonderful to look at and don't require any explanation from me You can see them on his Instagram feed at Christian Reuben art Reuben is spelled r-i-e-b-e-n Christian Reuben art or his website, christianreban.com, or if you happen to be in or near Johnson City, Tennessee, and looking for a good time, his exhibit "Folly" is on display at Reese Museum in Johnson City, Tennessee, through July 2nd of this year, 2021, which I would love to see. The scale of his work is something you obviously and unfortunately can't appreciate seeing the work on phone or computer screens. So go see his work in person if you get the chance. Here is my conversation with artist, painter, Christian Reban. If you don't mind, indulge me a bit, and I might be misremembering, but I'd like to go back to my very first memory of your work, which was in Chicago. We were in grad school together, and I remember you putting out a bunch of, I think, foot-by-foot square paintings of landscapes. 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:52.800 Yes. 00:01:52.800 --> 00:03:12.280 and they were kind of rolling hills, and you were including different kinds of fabric, if I'm remembering right. And it was like gingham, and it was like... We're going way back. Yes, this is like... This is first recollection I have of your work. Yeah. So there's gingham, there's gendered fabrics. There was fabrics that I, if I remember right, were chosen because of their connection with different locales. So there's kind of a, a tie to, to, to place or culture. And there were, but other than that, there were, there were fairly, I don't know, I guess there's a lot of saturated color and they were flattened. You were dealing with kind of a Wayne Tebow distortion of space. If I remember, this is all again, I might be misremembering. Yeah. but there was a fairly dramatic departure from that or evolution from that point. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts looking back at that period. I mean, I'm sure it feels like forever ago. But when you were using fabrics, when you were using mixed media, now you're just pretty much straightforward oil paint on canvas from what I've seen. 00:03:14.540 --> 00:03:20.700 What do you think now looking back at mixed media? Do you? Do you have any attachment to that? 00:03:21.540 --> 00:04:27.820 Well, that was, I mean, you know, the program that we were in and it was so intense and I was so impressed and excited. possibly even intimidated by my fellow students there that I really threw myself in to, um, the program and the ethos of the program, which was to just experiment. And so I was, I'd come in doing these, um, landscapes that were kind of tied in. I moved recently back to the States and I was seeing some sort of correlation between the American landscape and the American character as I saw it. And so that kind of translated into what does this so-called American landscape look like when it's depicted on the these specific cultural fabrics from the Middle East or Sub-Saharan Africa or wherever. 00:04:30.300 --> 00:05:16.160 And that was just, you know, I felt at the time, I'll get rather autobiographical here. I felt at the time that I was on the old side of going to grad school. I think I was... maybe 35, something like that. And I mean, there were people older, but most people were younger. And so one way I just coped with that was like, well, no one's gonna accuse me of being conservative in what I'm doing here. So I just like tried everything, you know, and I used all those fabrics and I had stuff. coming off the wall and all that kind of thing. And looking back, 00:05:18.460 --> 00:05:42.260 there's a, I guess there's a few sort of nice images if I think about it, but for the most part, really the important thing was just me experimenting and getting comfortable being in a situation where I didn't know what the outcome was going to be. And that's really, um, what I've taken from that whole period moving forward. 00:05:43.780 --> 00:06:43.200 Right. So in grad school, that is the ethos, right? It's like try new things, get yourself out of normal ways of doing and thinking. And I think there is definitely... I don't know, built into that situation. Like, it's easy to get self-conscious and feeling like you're not... I don't know, there's like an imposter syndrome that happens a little bit, and there's like wanting to... Yeah, of course there's going to be a comparison because you're going into a highly competitive program with other people that are doing what you're trying to do. I don't know. I feel like my experience was that it was really hard to get through the noise of what was, I don't know, what was I kind of forcing myself into because I thought that's what the expectation was of the institution or of the people around me and what was really mine and what I was after. 00:06:43.200 --> 00:07:21.500 Yeah, that sounds correct. I mean, when we finished that first year and then started the MFA, I carried on with that kind of thinking that, like, I'm going to try all these things and whatever. But then what really was an important point for me was that when I realized, well, actually, you should be making art that you personally are connected to. And not just sort of, I mean, the experimentation thing is fantastic, but now apply it to something that you actually care about. 00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:59.580 So how did that's, that's the moment I'm most curious about. When was that? How did that happen? Because I do remember this, like you were up on, I can't even remember what the floors were now, but you were the floor above the studio floor above. And I remember walking into your studio and it was like, This complete turn and your paintings felt so confident But so totally different than what you'd been doing previously like there there to me was like this palpable Change and it's like you you resonated you locked in on something that was just you know Undoubtedly much more powerful and focused and what yeah, how did how did that happen? 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:01.300 well 00:08:01.300 --> 00:09:48.300 It was kind of a perfect storm in some ways. So I had had a brutal critique the end of our first semester of the MFA. And like scathing. So I had done all these kind of cityscape things and the faculty just totally ripped me to shreds. and, um, the gist of it was like, we don't think you care about this stuff. And so I went off and mulled that over, um, over the break and, um, realized that, Oh, they're actually, they're right. I don't care about that. What I care about, um, is I had pretty much fallen in love with one of our classmates who was not into it. And, um, That was what I actually cared about, not sort of these depictions of Chicago. And then the challenge came, like, how do you represent that sort of situation? And I stuck with the landscape motif, but it became a much more... idiosyncratic and sort of internal landscape. I was working with two really great professors at the time, Susanna Coffey and Galen Gerber. So they were like, just by chance, you know, perfect for that situation as well. And that was it. Then as soon as I kind of, broke away from this need to replicate what my eyes saw and tried to represent more like what my heart was feeling, that was liberating. And that's where I had that really rich vein of work come out 00:09:48.300 --> 00:10:02.800 it. Right. So that's interesting to me that there is a process of winnowing, like figuring out what is not important and then also retaining what is. So there was an aspect of landscape that 00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:04.600 stayed with you. 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:17.860 And I wonder also, was there other other stuff that you retained from the previous work? Was there a color palette? Was there a sense of light and space? And was there anything else that you think you held on to? 00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:57.940 Definitely held on to stuff. I don't know in that work specifically. all of that stuff sort of got subsumed by the content. And I was really just kind of getting comfortable with this new vernacular that I was working with as time has gone on. And certainly now those, um, like traditional landscape painting issues are more present. But at the time, you know, yeah, sort of. But I was really just sort of like, ooh, how do I represent this particular thing that's going on right now? 00:10:58.140 --> 00:10:58.640 Right. 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:06.020 And then, you know, also, and I'm sure this is true for you too, like, you know, we've been out for, I don't know how long, 16 years, 17 years, something like that. 00:11:06.020 --> 00:11:07.320 Oh, my gosh. Has it been that long? 00:11:07.620 --> 00:11:08.120 Yeah. 00:11:09.040 --> 00:11:26.860 And, you know, those voices often come into your head when you're working on something. Just about, you know, oh, you need to look out for this. Or when we're painting this kind of thing, then you have to do this in response or whatever. And those become second nature then. 00:11:26.860 --> 00:11:27.360 Yeah. 00:11:27.300 --> 00:11:39.800 so at what point did you just decide to get rid of everything except for oil paint like was that part of that that shift or had it already happened before that that wasn't there was no 00:11:39.800 --> 00:12:35.700 conscious decision to do that um for me painting is really hard like i'm not a i'm not a natural painter i'm much more a natural draftsman like drawing comes super easy painting is just There's all these mitigating factors, and I do not need to make it any harder for myself by bringing in other things. There's plenty there for me. Even now, we've been doing it for a long time, and I'll still be... Have times in the studio where I'll be like, I can't believe I call myself a painter. I can't do this thing You know, like I was just painting this dog head and I could not get it. I can't couldn't believe I couldn't get it So I don't need to like bring in anything else to make it harder like it in what the you know It's it's hard, but it's a really nice kind of heart like it's it's challenging But my success rate is good enough that it's I'm not totally discouraged by it 00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:44.940 And what does painting have to have to offer as a medium that you can't get in other media like photography or with charcoal or 00:12:45.460 --> 00:14:45.220 The the biggest thing and this is I think true for most painters like and I tell my students this all the time like the Biggest weapon we've got is color as painters And color is so powerful, but so dangerous because it's so seductive and it takes you down this path and suddenly you're no longer in control. Like color is in control. So that's going to be the biggest thing that paint can do. that I don't see in other media. The whole thing though, like I struggle with photography, with appreciating photography. And I think, and so I wonder like, why is this? And I think then there's something to do with the physicality of paint too, what makes it so attractive to me. I'm really, I'm enchanted and mystified and challenged by this weird phenomenon that paint is, where you've got this tube and you squeeze it, and this pure color comes out, and you can make this color turn into things. It can become the illusion of all these sorts of things, but it can also just be this like paste, this color paste, you know? So that's just weird and interesting to me. So that's like its strength and its weakness to you. And I think that's something in my painting that's always been there, and I didn't even realize it until actually Susan Kraut pointed it out to me. at one point where I do all these things in the paintings to create this sort of illusion of space and depth and then I'll destroy it with this like whatever this like flat blob of paint or something like that. So I think that's in some ways just sort of an extension of the pain itself. Like it is this, it can do these two things, you know, it can be this illusion, but it can also just be this thing. 00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:57.200 Well, it just sounds like it's enough for you to hold your interest. It's hard enough. It's a challenge enough. It has enough potential within that one medium that you don't, you aren't called to search elsewhere. 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:28.960 For me, yeah, there's absolutely enough. And that's just my sensibility. I'm kind of, in some ways, a one-track person. Like, I might have a lot of interest, but everything's kind of on its own little track. And if someone told me, like, you must include video in your work now, or you must make it kinetic in some way, I just would be overwhelmed by all these other potentials now. You know, I have enough potentials as it is. 00:15:28.960 --> 00:16:42.760 So one of the things that prompted me to start this podcast is I've always been interested how the materials that artists use reveal a lot about the person, right? Like, so you go to an art school and there are printmakers, there are photographers, there are, you know, graphic artists, illustrators, etc. and then studio art, painters, sculptors, what have you. And there's kind of a personality and there are different things that you start to see patterns in these different communities of different kinds of artists that tend to, to kind of go toward one direction in art. So having, I was, I was just thought that would be a, an interesting conversation to have with people just to look at art making through the lens of the materials we choose. Right. And I think it's interesting, not just the materials we choose, but, uh, I don't even know what to... How we use the materials? How we use them, but also what doesn't interest us about other materials, right? Or what doesn't... It's not just the positive, but it's also the negative, right? It's like... You know, I don't know. I think it's so compelling to think about how. 00:16:43.780 --> 00:16:55.080 Well, I could not be a printmaker. Like I just I'm a slob. And, you know, yeah, that's like lets me get away with that. And printmaking would not. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:27.300 Right. Every once in a while, you'll see a printmaker that's like, I don't care about registration, I don't care about series. But inside I'm thinking you're not a printmaker, you're a painter. You're a painter enjoying going up and going in and messing up the shop of a printmaker. Do you, how have you kind of evolved over time in terms of your identity as a painter? Do you, is that what you are? Are you a painter? Are you an artist? 00:17:27.300 --> 00:18:56.860 Yeah. Yeah, I feel, I remember actually, I don't know if you remember this, but We had an interesting discussion in our post-bac seminar. And I think I remember which professor it was, but somebody asked the group, when did you first describe yourself as an artist? And most of the people in our class were like, oh, I was eight years old or whatever. And I had not felt comfortable. I'm not sure I even felt comfortable then doing that. and part of that I think was tied into the sort of capitalist society that we live in where it's like if you're not making your living from what you do then that's not what you are or something so I wasn't comfortable then, I'm quite comfortable now doing it I often feel, I mean you probably as well when you're talking to non-artists and you're saying what you do I mean I would first say painter but of course then they think you're a house painter and you have to clarify that but I feel you know a painter that's how I see things that's how I solve problems is you know I solve problems in my canvas the same way as I do in my life. Printmakers solve problems differently. 00:18:57.280 --> 00:18:57.780 For sure. 00:18:58.980 --> 00:19:00.300 Not that they have problems. 00:19:01.080 --> 00:19:14.460 They got plenty of problems. And so describe a little bit what are your materials? What's the size and shape of your paintings? What kind of canvas do you use? What kind of paints do you use? 00:19:14.460 --> 00:19:30.560 I use, so I guess up until the last year, I was, just doing big canvases. I don't paint on linen. I just paint on canvas. And they were big. They were, this last big series was, 00:19:30.900 --> 00:19:31.400 God, 00:19:32.300 --> 00:20:46.300 maybe like 72 by 96 or something. They're like really big. And it's pretty much as big as my studio in terms of its height. and that was that that sort of came out of the previous body of work which was figurative and very um very heroic in its subject matter but also within in its approach and so it seemed it seemed appropriate for that big canvas means your your problems are big too and um So that's what I was dealing with. I like a big space. I like it to maneuver in. I'm actually pretty comfortable with it. I don't remember why I started doing some small canvases. And small for me would be around, let's say, 40 inches more or less. Um, maybe I, I think possibly it's just cause I wanted to have some stuff done. Like the big ones, you know, the last few big, big ones I was working on, I spent over a year on, um, just changing things and all this sort of deal. And so I started the small ones, um, and they came really easy and that was really nice. 00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:48.060 So... 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:53.520 so will you only work when you're working on big ones you only work on one at a time or two at a 00:20:53.520 --> 00:21:29.940 time i would work on a couple um now i'm working on like six or seven at a time but those are there's a lot of little ones in there got it and that's possibly because i have this show that's still up and i was just working on you know six or seven just trying to get them done and it works well so then like you know something can be drying and you're working on To go back to materials, I use sort of a mid-range or mid-value range of paint. So not the best, best stuff, but not super cheap stuff either. Recently, I've been into Charvan. 00:21:31.460 --> 00:21:34.400 What do you like about that? I'm not familiar with that. 00:21:34.600 --> 00:22:19.000 It's a French company. They have some really interesting colors of their own that they mix up. uh, that I enjoy. And I think initially I started using them because I don't know, there was probably a deal and I, I was like a deal. Um, but then I, but then I kept using them. Um, so, so I'm into those. I've also, um, there's a British, uh, range, I think it's called Jackson and Perkins or something like that, that I've ordered, um, from them in the UK. And, and that's a really good quality. There is the European paints, I think are really good quality. Um, so I, and when I'm over there, I try to, I try to buy some, um, and that's, 00:22:19.060 --> 00:22:25.780 is there a pretty specific palette that you've developed over the years? You're looking for particular pigments or are you always experimenting? 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:56.300 I like to use new things. I like to mix it up for myself. I have my default colors that I, um, just seem to end up using. So I like to really kind of not let myself fall into that so automatically. So I'm always doing kind of like a, it'll be a phthalo turquoise-y things going on and a pink and a cool yellow. I tend to like cool colors. So I try to then buy, you know, warm colors or, you know, I'll see a color that looks really interesting. 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:52.320 Love and hate with the love. I know. Well, I'm forgetting now who my advisor was. His first name was Kevin. I can't remember his last name. Do you remember, Kevin? You know who I'm talking about? He had glasses. Yeah, I do know who you're talking about, and I'm blanking on his last name. He was the biggest proponent. He loved... mixing with phthalo. He always had it on his palate. And so for a while I tried it and man, it just destroys the whole painting. A little goes a long way. So you've got phthalo out on the palate always or is it just when you 00:23:52.320 --> 00:24:16.000 are... Well, if you saw my palate, it's like there's a pile of tubes that I kind of deciphered the ends of, you know. so it's always in there right I just there's something about it's especially you know when it's mixed with some white and it gets this really eerie kind of glow to it that I just go to it 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:17.420 for sure for sure 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:20.840 so but anacrodone's another favorite like I love anacrodone got it yeah 00:24:20.840 --> 00:24:30.740 yeah I can now that you say that I can definitely see that in the work So phthalo, quinacridone, are there other colors that you tend to reach for? 00:24:31.460 --> 00:25:03.900 Cool yellows, like a lemon yellow. I think that there's a cerulean with a... a cool, but not, but a red that's maybe made up of quinacridone and cadmium. Like that pair, the cerulean with that red is always really good looking. But again, you know, one of the, one of the things, one of the things I love about painting is I don't know where I'm going to end up. And so I, I really do like to try to do new things in a painting. 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:05.480 And I'm terrible. 00:25:06.260 --> 00:25:12.640 I think I'm terrible with brown. So I'd like to try to work better with brown, you know? 00:25:12.860 --> 00:25:23.620 Got it. So in that situation where you have a color that you would like to experiment with or want to learn how to use better, how do you set that up in a painting? Or what does that look like when you actually go? 00:25:23.640 --> 00:26:06.440 I would just start with brown. I start... almost all my paintings reductively where I'll put down a ground and then I'll just start wiping things away and those those white marks and splatters and whatever start to look like something and then I kind of go down that out. So if I was doing this brown painting, which I haven't done yet, I would just like mix up this brown and then I'd start wiping it away. And then we would start to see some sort of space or characters or what have you. And then I would have to get some colors in there to play off that brown. 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:18.360 So if you're, the traditional approach is to use like a burnt sienna burn number for the reductive part of the, you know, that initial layer. What colors are you using now? 00:26:18.800 --> 00:26:56.200 Oh, well, whatever. Phthalo. Phthalo. Or, you know, like I said with the Charvan, like there might be a color that they've got. They've got something, and I'm not sure the exact name of it, but it's something like warm... cobalt something or other and so just like if I like this color that Charvan has mixed up and is selling then I might just use that as the ground just as it is so I won't mix some I won't mix the ground I'll just put that down then bounce off of whatever that looks like with its varying degrees of value 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:07.240 you. And your choice of color, is that decision made in response to the subject matter you know you're going to be working with? Or are those kind of separate issues, the subject matter versus the 00:27:08.100 --> 00:27:46.800 palette? Yeah, I never know what the subject matter is, or at least not recently. That sort of, I mean, you know, obviously I have things that I'm thinking about, and in the last for plus years, that work was very political in nature. So that's like, oh, it's in your head. And then you're more inclined to see things relating to that when you see these ambiguous marks on a canvas. But I don't really go in with like, okay, it's going to be two figures doing this thing. It's more like I'll see that with these blobs and I'll turn it into that. 00:27:46.800 --> 00:28:25.480 So that initial turning point when you had that harsh critique and then you came back and did that body of work, that what you cared about was tied into your love for somebody, right? Yeah. Have you continued to... How do you determine what it is that you're going to make paintings about? I assume that you've moved on from that one person, maybe not. Oh, yes. Very much. Maybe there are still feelings there? No. No, no. Is it love that continues to occupy most of your paintings or is it what else? 00:28:25.480 --> 00:29:48.860 It can be. I, two years ago, I lost my wonderful dog, who was really just this fantastic companion. And so I did this, I did a very large painting made up of four different canvases, sort of as a way to, as a tribute, but as a way also for me to to like be with him. And it, it's, it's in this big, this show I've got up and it's it's a depiction of the woods here in Appalachia. And we'd go on these great walks through them and trying to convey this idea of, What it's like for a dog to be in that situation where there's this sort of exaggerated sensory experience going on, but then also, you know, sharing time with a loved one and that that emotional component. So I tried to convey that in the painting, those two things. So, you know, that does emotion is absolutely a big part of potentially what happens in the work. I am a pretty emotional person. I'm not necessarily comfortable showing that, but but it's there. It's a big motivator in how I work. respond to the world. 00:29:50.120 --> 00:29:58.100 In that regard, is painting functional? Like painting is a way that you, a channel that you've found that you're comfortable with exposing your emotion? 00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:26.660 Yeah, I think, I think it is. I can put things up there. I guess, yeah, at some point, I mean, thinking back to that whole body work in grad school, like that was, I think that was kind of shocking to a lot of people that I wasn't, was willing to put that up on the wall. And that maybe, that was a, that was pretty instrumental than me getting a relatively thick skin with sharing those things with the public. 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:27.460 You know, 00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:43.380 like you can put this stuff up on the wall and people can laugh at you or pity you or whatever, and you're still going to be fine. So it's, you know, die. And it might lead to actually some good work. So it's worth it then. 00:30:44.300 --> 00:31:15.440 I think that is such an important idea that you need to focus on things that you care about. It sounds so obvious. I don't know how to say it in a way that sounds as... But it is so much harder to do than it might seem. I guess maybe especially in a school where there's this... you know, anxiety about having some kind of intellectual justification for what you're doing, right? And it's easy to get away from just like, do you even care about this stuff? 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:39.020 Well, I think it's hard to, as a teacher, when you're teaching young people, who are still, you know, they're figuring out who they are. And so they might not feel that strongly about something and now their teacher's telling them, hey, what you care about? Well, I don't know what I care about. So that can be a challenge for them. 00:31:39.560 --> 00:32:46.300 Right. And it can be a challenge just figuring out what you care about that deserves this kind of position of honor up on a canvas or focus, right? Or dishonor, yeah. Or dishonor. So I remember in that, again, going back to that first series, there was, in a lot of them, there was kind of an altar type of, or central, not a shrine, but something, kind of a memorial object, memorializing object. I don't know if that's a fair way to characterize it, but it seemed like you had kind of a theme, an object that was a center point or centerpiece of the concept behind the work or the idea behind the work. How do you, you talk about just putting a color on the canvas and starting to, you know, wipe away areas. Is there, are you thinking about a space? Are you thinking about an object? Are you thinking about a theme? I mean, you're a figurative painter. You're doing stuff that's recognizable. What, is there any kind of organizing principle that you go in with or that you, you know, kind of forms, informs how you develop the image? Yeah. 00:32:46.300 --> 00:33:17.660 Um, I'm, I'm very intuitive and not so schematic. So I really just respond to things that are there. Um, and I don't go in with an idea that, okay, it's, I've got to do this and there's got to be that and then I'll do this. You know, that's not what, that's not how it works. Right. And that's, and I actually feel pretty strongly that that's the worst way to do it. 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:44.060 That I think our, our paintings have potentials far beyond what we can imagine. see for them at the start, you know, and that that conversation between you and the painting will get you to a better result than anything you can come in and impose upon the canvas. Right. So you just... People will dispute that. 00:33:44.060 --> 00:33:56.960 So is the idea... so you just... are you and then you've got this color on the canvas and that's when the development begins? You don't go in kind of with a preconception at all? 00:33:55.500 --> 00:35:10.920 The biggest preconception, I mean, I just started one day before yesterday. And so the biggest preconception would be, I'm working on landscapes right now, so that's almost just a given. And then, I might say, so what I was thinking the other day is I'm doing these, I've been working on some of the, you know, these six or seven canvases and they're almost all kind of, there's a lot of space in them. They're outside. There's a lot of air and I'm feeling I'd rather do something a little more enclosed. So that's the, that's the most it was. And then, I lay down this color and started wiping away. And then we're suddenly like in the middle of this pretty dense forest. And then it's just, you know, then it's intuitive composition. So it's like, and this is where you don't even think. It's just like, you know, you feel that this area here needs something to take the eye away from that. And this area here has to balance what's happening down there. and there's too many large things here, not enough large things there, or what have you. But that's, yeah, it's so intuitive. It's not even a conscious thought. 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:18.420 Got it. And do you try to stay away from being too literal in terms of like a narrative? I have a problem with that, yeah. 00:35:18.720 --> 00:35:42.400 So I definitely, I mean, that's killed so many of my paintings over the years where I just have this compulsion to nail something down. when I really need to pull back and let it not quite be there so that the viewer can actually finish it up for themselves, you know? Right. So that's something that's a problem I have, being too literal. 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.400 How do you keep yourself from doing that? 00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.420 That's conscious. I'm just like, stop. 00:35:50.220 --> 00:35:55.040 Do you have a trusted somebody that will come in and save you from yourself? 00:35:55.740 --> 00:36:22.400 I don't, but I do have a trusted coterie of actual grad school buddies who... I will send images to and be like, can you tell what this is? Or whatever, you know, and they're, you know, they're, they're smart articulate people. So I, I trust what they say. And even if I disagree with them, I, it's just good for me to hear how they are seeing things. 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:36.060 Right. Do you use a reference of any kind? Because your imagery is pretty, there's a level of detail there that seems would be difficult to get just out of your imagination. I mean, that's meant as a compliment, but... 00:36:36.060 --> 00:37:25.760 I often will, like not for everything, obviously, and that would maybe come into the literal thing where... something might look specific but you can't quite identify it and that's fine but then there'll be other things where like for example this dog head I was trying to do a dog lying upside down and I just could not get it to look like a dog it was looking like a pig and so then I had to get my dog to lie down and do something so I could get the structure of his face and that sort of thing. But I also, um, I don't know if you know this, but I, when I was living overseas, I had the, um, garden design business. So I'm pretty familiar with the way that plants look. And so I'm just sort of, 00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:26.660 I'm, 00:37:26.660 --> 00:37:35.460 I'm decent at suggesting diverse sorts of textures and that kind of thing. Um, just because I'm familiar with a lot of different plants. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:38:10.640 Right, right. I don't know if I ever mentioned this to you, but when we were in Chicago, I think my first year there, I read the book Devil in the White City. I don't know if you're familiar with the book, but there's a pretty in-depth description of landscape design there. they're, you know, one of the historical figures in the book is, uh, I'm not getting that, but essentially somebody who does kind of what you're talking about, the designs, uh, parks and spaces and flowers and trees and they like the layout. I forget what. 00:38:11.140 --> 00:38:20.600 They're making a garden is like making a painting, you know? So it's all that sort of tension and harmony that, that successful painting has a successful garden line. 00:38:20.600 --> 00:38:22.420 Do you still do gardening? 00:38:23.980 --> 00:38:29.340 Just for myself and loved ones. No more clients. 00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.260 Well, I imagine that's a bigger thing in... You're in England? 00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:36.540 Yeah. 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.640 I imagine it's a bigger business there, or is it not? 00:38:41.040 --> 00:39:09.520 Yeah, it's a big thing there. It's also interesting because in England, England has this reputation as being this island of gardeners. And so I think a lot of people, certainly my friends at the time who I started doing it for, they would buy these houses and they wouldn't have a clue themselves what to do in the garden. But there's this sort of just English character thing where they felt they had to have a nice garden. 00:39:10.140 --> 00:39:10.640 Right. 00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:12.080 So there's less of that in America. 00:39:12.600 --> 00:40:06.860 A couple more questions and I'll let you go. Impasto, the thickness, the paint application is, I feel like one of the things that I appreciate about your work is it feels like you are conscious of the use of impasto. Like there are, you know, I've run across, in Los Angeles, I run across a lot of ocean paintings. And oftentimes the way that impasto is used is just kind of gross. You know, it's evenly applied across the surface of the painting and there's not really an attention to the fact that it can be used as a point of contrast. I don't know if you can hear that leaf blower right outside. That's annoying. But there is just kind of an insensitivity to impasto as a product. a compositional element, right, and a tool. How do you think, do you have conscious thoughts about impasto and how it's used? 00:40:06.980 --> 00:41:33.700 Yeah, absolutely. I almost, I like never use that term with my students. I probably should. I guess for me, impasto is a very specific sort of use of thick paint. whereas what I use in my own paintings and what I try to teach my students is we use a diversity of paint physicality and diversity of all sorts of things in our work and that's one thing that makes work successful but in terms of the thickness of paint absolutely yeah you don't I mean I have thick paint right next to washes and dribbles and all sorts of, going back to what we were talking about earlier, paint can do so many crazy things just as this physical presence. And so I try to really push it as much as I can to celebrate all of its potential. on the painting. So yeah, absolutely. There'll be thickness, but, um, you know, it's done with, it's done with intention and consideration. So there's not any sort of blanket thickness or, or blanket thinness. You know, it's really trying to get this like balance that you get through all the formal elements, um, And the physicality of pain is just one more formal element. 00:41:34.200 --> 00:41:50.680 Right. I like that framing, talking about it in terms of the physicality of pain. It becomes a more meaningful way or word to use than impasto. Impasto does kind of have... a lot of other associations. I just, 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:55.060 when I hear impasto, I just think of like bad work. Right. 00:41:55.800 --> 00:43:00.280 It's true. It's true. And then the last thing that I was going to ask about, um, I don't even know if there's a question there as much as there's just the comment that I, and maybe that's it. I just want to pass a compliment that, that the work is, from that moment almost, there was such a, what's so kind of wonderful and remarkable to me is it really does feel like there was that one pivotal moment. And from then on, like your paintings have just been dynamite. Like I feel like there's such a depth of emotion and it really feels like like you found how to reach that core of yourself, you know, and like how to access that, whatever that authentic you is, like you tapped into it somehow. Now I feel like most, most everybody has that potential, but, But to be able to actually tap into that in a really compelling way is a rare find. And, you know, however you did it. Well, I... You managed it. And it's wonderful to see. 00:43:01.140 --> 00:43:08.100 That's much more complimentary than it should be. Along the way, there have been plenty of fails. I'm sure. 00:43:08.180 --> 00:43:10.100 I'm sure. I'm sure you've played... Yeah. 00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:28.420 I guess the one thing it did is it showed me... how it, when things are right, this is what should be happening. Right. You know? Right. So that when it's not happening like that, then something's got to change to take it back in that kind of direction. 00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:35.200 How would you describe that? What is right when it's, or what is it that's happening when it's right? 00:43:36.100 --> 00:44:23.640 Um, you feel utterly confident, you know, that you can do this. And... um, you find yourself just making really good decisions and it's not, um, it sounds really arrogant and it's totally not meant to be arrogant at all. Because like I said, along the way, like, or, you know, um, especially if you, if one of your kind of guiding principles is to, to challenge yourself and to, um, confound expectations and that kind of thing, like you're going to, there's going to be a lot of bad things along the way, you know, a lot of crappy paintings. Um, and so, so I've had a lot of those, but when things are, 00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:29.700 what other word, what other would you, word would you use or could you use besides confident? Uh, well, 00:44:29.840 --> 00:45:37.620 conviction you're working with conviction, um, I'm just trying to think, like what I was talking earlier when you were talking about who I talk to about my work. And even when my friends are like-- I've got one really good friend who is really one of the best painters. I know. And she'll tell me all the time, not all the time, she'll often say, I think it's done, as it is. And I will, I understand where she's coming from because of the sort of painter that she is, but I will know for myself, like, okay, this could be done if it was her painting, and it would be great because it's her painting. painting. But for me, it's not done yet, but it will be done. I can see how it will be done. Right. And it's more like the sort of confidence you get just from experience, I think. It's not sort of, it's no blind confidence. It's a confidence that like you, you earned in some way just through like making it through all these struggles along the way 00:45:37.620 --> 00:45:55.960 so that you just know things could it be said then that if you're early on in your career or early on in your life and don't have a whole lot of life experience that it's confidence in just whatever level that you're at Like, how would you teach that, what you're talking about to a student that's just at the beginning of their... 00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:31.180 Well, I do... I've got this... When an intro painting, we do this whole thing, and there's a list of seven qualities that every great painting has. And so one of them is conviction. And so even if you don't... You know, even if you're... a wee babe in the world. Uh, you can certainly present things with conviction and that, that can be an, a lesson in itself so that you don't necessarily believe in something, but you present it as though you do. And then you see the response to that. And that can be just something you kind of, you know, put in your, put in your pocket and think about in the future. 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:35.380 Right. If people want to see your work, where's the best, uh, best place to find it? 00:46:35.720 --> 00:47:14.860 Oh, well, I've actually, I do have this, uh, show up right now. Um, if, if anybody is in Eastern Tennessee, uh, it's up until July 2nd, it's at the Reese museum in Johnson city, Tennessee. Uh, I'm pretty good on Instagram. I, I do have my own website, which is christianreban.com. Um, but I'm also, I'm on Instagram, which is Christian Reban art. And, uh, I, I, you know, at least post a couple of things a week, uh, studio things, what's, what's going on. Um, successfully or not. There's probably going to be a Thalo painting in there very shortly. 00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:26.880 Look forward to it. I am a follower. I enjoy watching them come through. Good. Thank you. Well, Christian, thank you so much for your time. This has been great. I love 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:37.000 hearing about the work. Thank you. I appreciate you contacting me. I appreciate you even noticing my work. I certainly do. I really do enjoy it. 00:47:37.000 --> 00:48:20.440 I really enjoyed this conversation with Christian and hope to get to catch up with him again in the future. You can see Christian's work at @christianreebenart on Instagram. His website is christianreeben.com, Reeben spelled R-I-E-B-E-N. And his exhibit Folly is on display at Reese Museum in Johnson City, Tennessee through July 2, 2021. All of this info and a short bio is on the website for this podcast at dabbleon.com forward slash podcast. Rate me on iTunes, subscribe on the website, and tell friends and family. And go make artwork you care about. ♪ ♪