Trenton ReynoldsThis is Dabalon. My name is Trent Reynolds and in this podcast, I have conversations with artists about materials. If you are enjoying this podcast and want it to continue, please subscribe or make a one-time contribution at dabalon.com/podcast, leave a five-star rating on iTunes and tell all your friends. The longevity of this program very much depends on your support and I thank you. This is a crossover episode with the other podcast I am part of called Room in the Trees. I co-host Room in the Trees with Sabrina Ward Harrison, who is also an artist. If you like listening to the Dabble On podcast, there's a good chance you would like Room in the Trees, where we talk about living life as an artist. So for this episode, I asked Sabrina to join me to talk about the materials that inspire her creativity. Here is my conversation with artist, friend, and my Room in the Trees podcast co-host, Sabrina Ward Harrison. ♪ It's been really interesting. It's something that I've been wanting to do for a long time, just have conversations specifically, I guess, looking at different artists through the lens of the materials that they use. Because I think so much can be said and found out about the person just by what they choose to create with. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I think I know you... perhaps better than most of the people that I've spoken with so far, but I still think that there's probably a lot of territory we could cover. Well, A, how would you introduce yourself to somebody else? Would you introduce yourself as an artist? as an author, as a photographer, where do you think the root of your kind of creative identity is?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's a great question. I think, well, I call myself a creative liberator. I think it's definitely my passion is through whatever medium I'm using to help people feel freedom and liberation in their life, in themselves and spaciousness to be more fully alive in their life. So, I use, that will come through in photography and then combining words and imagery and environments I create.
Trenton ReynoldsEven in your books, there is definitely that... that seed of, of an idea, right? Like of not just wanting other that, well, starting with yourself, like you wanted that creative liberation and then to kind of give others permission to do the same, right? Right. Right. Absolutely. To feel,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonto feel their real feelings, to feel the real ache and the real love and the real growing pains and
Trenton ReynoldsSo that kind of goes beyond, well, any one medium and maybe even beyond just visual art, right? That's a bigger thing. Yeah, it is. Well, and I guess like authorship is kind of bigger in that, you know, it's not just about the words. It's about communicating something. I guess if you along those same lines are painting is the same we're trying to communicate something about the human condition. Okay, so if you that's that's kind of like a meta overall. Yes, but then what comes next on that hierarchy of that that value stack. You've got creative liberator at the bottom and then what's the next step up. I hate to try. Maybe it's unfair to try to, you know, force you into class.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWhat would you say this?
For you? Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsI would say...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonJust because you know me pretty well. I'm afraid you've known me a long time. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsYou know, I know... I never felt like photographer was even the dominant medium in your life. It's definitely a tool, a lens that you look through metaphorically as well as literally, that you look at the world through. But I always felt like... Yeah, mixed, mixed media I don't know how else I would say it mixed media artist. That being said though, you know I was talking to David in my studio mate on one of the episodes and he was talking about the ceramics that he's been doing recently, and that even though he's working in ceramics he's, he's still a painter. Right. Right. I think I'm getting that right but I, I feel the same with myself that even when I'm working in other media that kind of my roots are most strongly planted in painting, like that's kind of how I. So when I when I do ceramics I'm doing ceramics as a painter. You know, if I, if I would say even when I'm working on video, there's some of that aesthetic, there's some of that, you know, something of that, the processes of painting that creep into how I approach video. Right. So, thinking about you again, back to the question, I don't see you being too rooted in any one single material. Would you say that's the case? I guess paint, you are a painter. Yeah, I would agree. But you've got such strong ties to topography. Yeah, I do. And ink and water media and photography and page graphic design, page layout, that type of stuff. Yeah. So I think you are a true... mixed media artist.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, and I just, my passion with color and memory, I'm just really, really passionate about color and memory.
And
Sabrina Ward Harrisonchoosing colors and It's a whole, yeah, it's never been something, Sean said, he was asking me about the question about materials. And he said, well, you're just, you use what you find, what's there.
Right.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd pretty scrappy.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, and that's the other thing is there's also clothing. There's also like creating, inviting, like coziness. So there it is. There's the hierarchy is like creative liberator. And I think coziness is the next thing.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonlike cozy fire,
Trenton Reynoldscozier.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh my God. I love that. The cozy fire.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, like almost like, I feel like you're a space designer, a designer. Like, um, environments where that, and I wonder if that's not, you know, because we need to have a certain amount of warmth and safety to be able to draw out that freedom. You know, it's like you've got to be relaxed enough and comfortable enough in a space to be able to open up or you're going to feel protected. You're going to feel closed, shut down because you're just not in a safe space. I I hate to use that term just because it's so loaded, but yeah. Anyway, huh. So.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah. I always love talking deeply with you about it.
Trenton ReynoldsIs it, are we talking deeply?
Yes.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOkay. Don't you think so? Yeah. I mean, philosophizing about art and meaning, and I think so. I guess so. Unless you just think this is small talk.
Trenton ReynoldsWell, I just enjoy talking to you about art. Yeah, it's good to talk. It is great. Sometimes I don't, well, I don't really consider it.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI don't have people I talk with art about very much, honestly, when I think about it.
Trenton ReynoldsRight. Well, I guess. I don't have a letter.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I mean, I talk about it from a teacher's perspective, but. I just appreciate our creative conversations.
Trenton ReynoldsSo there's paint, so you've got, but there's also these found materials using materials that aren't like traditional materials or materials that you've purchased from an art store.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's the stuff you find that gives, stuff has the meaning from, I guess when I go out and buy, and I used to go out and buy. in different ways.
Trenton ReynoldsSo I know recently, and like we've talked about this, I feel like in the last year or two, you have bought some, maybe more than usual, some art supplies from art stores. Yeah, right. How has that been for you? Is it... you know, it doesn't have to be one way or the other, you know, but I wonder how, you know,
Sabrina Ward Harrisonif that's affected your... That's, yeah, that's what I love. I do love that aspect when it comes to materials. I guess it's funny because I'm thinking there's like liquid materials and there's paper materials and there's like structural materials so when i think about it and then like
Trenton Reynoldsemotional materials what are what would you classify as an emotional material
Sabrina Ward Harrisonyour emotional experiences that you're putting into the work the soul of the piece yeah
Trenton ReynoldsSo that's interesting. Say those again. There's the physical, structural, emotional.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThere's the physical, structural, yeah. This is just off the top of my head thinking about it. But there's the emotional materials, there's the physical material that's like for the structure of it. And I would say there's the layered material, the layers. Yeah. of the piece on the physical, like with a paper and imagery. And then there's like liquids, which to me is paint and varnishes and shellac and mediums.
Trenton Reynolds- So what would you say are the materials that you feel most alive using or most connected to, or that seem to evoke the right kinds of, you know, response or emotion from you.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI don't know if I have a favorite, but I love I guess what I was when I was bringing up the idea of the different different types of materials, I think I'm where the pieces have had to have life happen and are usually around in the layering part of materials. But when it comes to like liquids and stuff, I'm not using so much like I want to be more, I'm learning how to be more astute with what I'm using and putting on top of, you know, like what varnish am I putting on top of this or preserving pieces are really getting the effect I want. Whereas before I could be like, okay, I think this is how you make stuff to make a caustic and then you pour it all over a piece. It's not quite the right ratio. So that's where I like learning more of those things. But it is tricky because you want to stay loose. You want to stay as loose and free as you can be. And it's really, ultimately for me, it's always about the liberation that comes from creating. Then it is about the finished piece or selling the finished piece or... And then I think art for me, like books, it's like it's the materials are the by way in which the emotion is conveyed.
Trenton Reynolds- I'm just, I feel like fluidity. And so there's kind of an emotional aspect of that, Maybe that could be seen as kind of a metaphor for an emotion like the water, the fluid, the movement. But then you've also got this side that's crunchy.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsLike that's tearing, that's physical, that's like adversarial almost in the process. Wouldn't you say that you've kind of got – how would you characterize that?
A little rugged. Rugged?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonYeah, I like the words you chose, too.
Trenton ReynoldsDo you see those two things as, like, contrary to each other, or are they kind of in tandem?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI think they're very much in tandem. Yeah, and when I'm at my fullest best... full of self they're really in sync with each other and playing off playing with
Trenton Reynoldseach other playing off of each other who's that who's that Icelandic band I'm totally blanking right now see your roost yeah yeah so you know how like in their music there's there is there's a lot of like spatial ambient sounds yes and there's a lot of strings and kind of these undulating types of sounds and but then all of a sudden you'll get this like, like a really grating, like, um, I don't even know what, what instrument would be used to, to make that sound, but there's this, yeah. So that's, that's kind of what I'm, uh, I envision is like this, there's this simultaneous flow, but also this really like, yeah. Textured or, or I don't know how,
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's so interesting you would bring that up about that band because it feels like that when you say that now when I think about that music and I've done creative work that put that music to some of my work before in a slideshow that is why I think I love it because it has that it takes you on this journey emotionally that's so decisive it's like very very much very emotionally exciting to me.
Trenton Reynolds- Right. And decisive, I had never paired that word with their music or, but it's something obviously we've talked a lot about. We made that video decisive action. decisive decisive i am not i am not decisive no nope is sean decisive yes yep he seems yeah he seems like he would be
Sabrina Ward HarrisonBut he's also very thoughtful about stuff in a different way. He'll think it through, but he can definitely ride my decisive actions. Yeah, he can go there.
Commit. Yes.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonLet's do it. Yeah, let's go.
Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsAll right, so tell me if you were to envision your favorite day, like an ideal day in the studio, you walk in the door, what's the setup? What are the materials you reach for first? Okay. like what's the game plan for an ideal studio session?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonOh, that's, can you describe yours first?
Maybe?
Trenton ReynoldsYes. It's only fair. I think for me, it's a hard question to answer because it changes, right, through time. But I think a big... The ideal situation would be a big board as a surface to work on. It would be... Charcoal, I think charcoal and matte medium are a combination that I just love. I love how rich deep black charcoal gets when you mix it with matte medium. So that, acrylic and acrylic paint, I think, you know, acrylic colors, big board, maybe a little bit of a little paper collage stuff. And I think that's, today, that's what I would like to walk in the studio and be facing.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's wonderful. I think my dream is always to get back to silk screening. I think I love the feeling of going to Mission Cultural Center in San Francisco and going up there and silk screening, taking my photography and then doing just loose photography. combinations of working on printmaking stuff loosely and then silkscreening over it. That's me when you say that. I want to walk into a big space. I saw a picture of Robert Rauschenberg's studio when he lived in an island off the coast of Florida. And it was just these big tables and different projects all happening around on these long tables. And they were silkscreened, big silkscreened. happening and that looks so gratifying I think I like faster I need to be moving around the space and so much just to do with the atmosphere of the space and very spacious and right the light so important and quiet
Trenton ReynoldsWell, that's part of it too for me is I don't think, I tend to move around the space and I rarely will have one big project that I focus on for the whole time. I tend to kind of work on this for a while, move to the next thing, kind of tinker with that for a while and it's kind of this literal and figurative moving around. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThat's interesting that you feel like, like you think of silkscreen as a medium that is loose. Like any kind of, any kind of printmaking process has always felt like there's a certain rigidity to that. Right? Yeah. So describe that. How do you make silkscreen a loose process?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonWell, the way I did it was I would just Xerox a photograph, then I would bring it onto a screen, and I would have extra bits of lace and different things. It would make the print look... And so it was just kind of this, it's hard to describe it without visually showing you. It's just the whole way was kind of, it was cutting, you know, pieces of vellum that had the imagery on it. Kind of cutting it up, taping it to the screen and then exposing it and then just... I never had like plain white special paper. I was always using stuff I'd already done stuff on. So it was adding this additional layer to something I'd already done a monoprint of or just adding like unexpected things on top of each other. I loved how fast it was and how there was no need to measure things into being perfect. They didn't have to line up. I wasn't doing like... four color passes, you know, over creating an image. It's using a totally different, it's a totally different kind of tool.
Trenton ReynoldsNo registration.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonNo registration. No registration at all. Yeah.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonAnd big too, big, like.
Right.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonToo big for what, any of the stuff I had that went with it.
Yeah.
Sabrina Ward Harrisonfor the right amount of ink.
Trenton ReynoldsHow big was your kind of average screen?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonProbably 24 by 36.
Trenton ReynoldsThat's a good size screen. Yeah. How do you pull a...
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt would just be on that you clip it into a hinge kind of thing and then you would just have And that hinge would be on a big big big tables And then you prop it up and then you put your paper down below it and then you just squeegee over it.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, do you stand to the side of it so you can squeegee the length of it or, you know, some people stand at the end of it and pull the squeegee toward them?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonThat's what I stand in front of it and they pull towards me. Okay.
Trenton ReynoldsOkay. Oh, someday. I took a silkscreen class when I was in grad school and I really enjoyed it, but I was definitely a little bit more uptight than you were. I had a professor in college, an undergrad, that did silkscreen with oil paint. So when he finished the screening, he would start painting into the image because it would stay wet. Anyway, I thought that was kind of cool, but that would be a colossal pain to clean, obviously. Yeah. One thing that, you know, just thinking about ideal days of making art, I really enjoyed the video that we made, that collaboration. Yeah. And that's something that over the course of my education I had the opportunity to do several times is collaborative projects with people. people and I think on my ideal day I would you know be in a space with other artists like working on projects together that exactly there's something just magical about that too so totally so perhaps someday someday the circumstances will be right we could uh Do another collaboration. That would be pretty cool.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonI know. I love that. I love that process. That's what I mean. Even just thinking of where when I did the silkscreen, I was doing it at this place where there was other people all doing it around, doing their work on their own thing. It's like, oh, man, it's so great. You created that space in L.A. It's amazing. I know.
Trenton ReynoldsI love it so much.
Sabrina Ward HarrisonIt's amazing. So you're having your first... your first open something this weekend?
Trenton Reynolds- Yeah, so I've got four in-person workshops. - Great. - And so the first one of those four is this Friday and Saturday. And I guess I, maybe if this, well, I guess this episode will come out before at least the last three. So anybody that would be interested in or is in Santa Monica area, there are... three so the first one is mixed media portrait the second one is all about resin the third one is mixed mixed media figure drawing so i'll have models for that one and then the last one is mixed media abstraction so if any of those appeal to you they're just weekend workshops friday friday evening and then all day saturday and i still have some spots in each one i have a couple spots and each one left.
And where did they go?
Sabrina Ward HarrisonDablon.com?
Trenton ReynoldsDablon.com forward slash workshops is the direct path.
Great.
Trenton ReynoldsYeah, I actually invited people to just come visit me at the studio today, an open studio visit and had, some good old friends come by and it was awesome just to see those faces and share space you know
yeah
Trenton Reynoldsthank you Sabrina thank you thank you for joining me on the Dabalon podcast. And I will also be posting this conversation to Room in the Trees. If you want to hear all the past episodes of Room in the Trees, of course you can subscribe on iTunes or listen to the episodes at the website, roominthetrees.com. Next week, I will have another conversation for you. So come back. Also rate me on iTunes, subscribe on the website, and tell friends and family. And have a wonderful day. ♪ ♪