WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 This is Dabble On. 00:00:04.780 --> 00:00:11.740 My name is Trent Reynolds, and in this podcast, I have conversations with artists about materials. 00:00:14.000 --> 00:01:32.040 If you are enjoying this podcast and want it to continue... please subscribe or make a one-time contribution at dablon.com forward slash podcast. Leave a five-star rating on iTunes and tell all the people, all your friends or anyone you think might be interested. The longevity of this program very much depends on your support and I thank you. In this episode, I am talking with another of my studio mates, Rob Holmesy. Rob is one of the newest additions to the studio, so I haven't had too many opportunities to talk with him. It was great to have an excuse to hear more about his work. Rob has a very wide range of experience in several different creative fields. So I'm sure there are many conversations to be had, but at the moment he is working mostly in clay So that is what we focus on in this conversation The best place to see his work is on Instagram at Rob Homsie studio that spelled R-O-B-H-O-M-S-Y studio, S-T-U-D-I-O Here's my conversation with artist Rob Holmes. You've covered a lot of territory in terms of creativity, not just in visual art, but other others as well. Can you give just like a survey of all the different fields that you've touched upon in your career? 00:01:32.040 --> 00:02:40.160 Sure. I have a basic design degree that was sort of pre-com, not sort of, it was pre-computers. So they taught us how to, a foundation. and drawing and painting and ceramics and weaving. You'd have to learn how to do the stuff first and then design it. So it was heavy on process and materials. And over the years, I have always been a working artist, but in all different fields. So I started as a furniture designer, ended up an interior designer became a decorative painter, which is, you know, faux finish and murals and that sort of thing. And all the while, doing ceramics on and off, ceramics isn't the easiest thing to do if you don't have a proper studio or somewhere to do it, because you need a kiln, obviously. Had you done ceramics in school? Yeah, so that was my first... taste of ceramics was, you know, at UCLA, again, many years ago. And when you 00:02:40.160 --> 00:02:45.940 took that ceramics class, was there, did it feel like you'd found something that 00:02:45.940 --> 00:04:01.140 felt right? Well, you know, I was young, but yes. I mean, the short answer is yes. You know, I was, it was UCLA, I was young, I wanted to go to football games and go to parties and, you know, I wasn't the best student, let's Let's just say that. But when I got older and had choices, I wasn't in a class, I wasn't in school, I thought, you know what, I knew that there was something there that I hadn't done yet with clay. You know, there was enough of a foundation about how to make things, both hand building and throwing on the wheel and glazing. You know, there's a lot of factors to clay and ceramics. But I think that, yeah, maybe even subconsciously, I just knew that there was more to explore and explore. Just started doing it when and where I could in workshops and in friend's studios. And then finally, many, many years later, got my own kiln and ceramic space and got into production pottery, which is where I am now. That's what I do predominantly. 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:13.660 Right. When you first found it and you were just learning about it, Were you doing vessels, were you doing like practical stuff or was it… 00:04:13.660 --> 00:05:36.480 Yeah, well you know it's school so there's assignments and that's what I think I meant when you know there was something still there that I hadn't explored and I think that was my you know finding my own voice and what I wanted to make. You know, when you're in school and you're completing assignments, you have a different objective, right? You want to get a grade, you want to pass the class, you want to do well, and hopefully at the same time make some, you know, rad art. But those things don't always go hand in hand, I made my fair share of really heavy, you ceramic blobs, you know, that when you're done, you know, there's a permanence to pottery that I really love, you know, maybe we can talk about that a little bit more, but, you know, then you're, you know, then you have this thing like, you know, so I guess, yes, the there's so much possible in ceramics. It's not, you know, it's a three-dimensional art form, but it also has surface treatment, you know, so there's that element of sort of decoration or, You know, if you want it to be painterly, you know, that's where my painting, you know, background and painting and drawing can come into play with the ceramics. It just depends on where you want to take it. 00:05:37.460 --> 00:06:17.140 And there's it seems to me like there's a very strong undertone in ceramics of or a tie to some kind of utility. like it seems like it's hard to get away from that right it's either is like a tile so it's used in or it's a plate or it's a vessel of some kind or you know even when it's like more you know less focused on utility it's like it can't help but refer to that. Like, so it's like a vessel, but it's like twisted up so it can't be used. For sure. So it's like a direct link to that, even though like it's trying to, 00:06:17.220 --> 00:06:20.200 that's where its roots are. Right. You know, I'm sure. 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:23.220 Is that part of its appeal for you is, is that kind of undertone of, 00:06:23.340 --> 00:08:21.080 I think so. I mean, there's, you know, first of all, it's a, you know, an art form that's been around, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of years, right? Probably the first fired pots were accidents. You know, somebody, you know, put them in a fire, you know, or was trying to heat up water and then it got hard and then they were like, wait, you know, and the same for glazes, you know, glazes are formed with, all kinds of chemicals and elements, most of them being soda ash and salt and things like that, which flux and then coat the surface with this impermeable glaze, we call it now. But there's something fascinating about that. The historicity. The history. But yeah, okay, so back to vessels. And you're right. I think that up until the, I think it was the... my art history, you know, knowledge is here, but I think it was in the 50s, and there was a school of pottery, and it was a few guys, I think they were at Otis, one very famous, who went on to be a very famous potter, Peter Volkos. They were the first, it was at least the, I don't know, Don't quote me on the 50s. 60s, 70s. But what they did was, this is in the deconstruction, you know, deconstructivism movement. And up until that point, pottery was functional. Right. You know, it was a vase or a tile or a plate or something that you used. Yeah. And if you made a vessel that had a hole in the bottom, you were just nuts, right? But these guys were breaking all those boundaries down and trying to move as much clay as they could. 00:08:24.080 --> 00:09:04.680 Like they'd say, "Okay, we've got 100 pounds of clay." you know, two hours or whatever the case may be and try to make as many pots as they could. And you know, the forms broke down and they became these sort of, you know, really primitive vessels that either would or wouldn't hold water, you know. And I think that was sort of the beginning of the shift away, you know, from strictly functional ceramic, art and then of course in the 70s 60s and 70s there were a lot of pretty famous artists that you know had whole careers you know with sculpture and you know are you interested 00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:09.700 in that conversation or is it just you're aware of it but not super you know intrigued by it 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:53.420 I like function. I want to make, and I think it goes back to that, you know, 19-year-old me that made that weird blob thing that weighed a zillion pounds and that I didn't know what to do. with, right? So I feel like, not to say I won't be making, I don't want to insult any ceramic sculptors by any means, but for me, making something that I can use and enjoy that's also beautiful and interesting is more interesting to me as a maker. I'm not sure why. 00:09:54.500 --> 00:10:32.820 I find for me, like painting portraits, there's something psychological or emotionally fulfilling for me about that. It's like I'm meditating on this person. I'm focusing on their image. I'm trying to recreate a likeness of them. And it's like during those hours of painting that picture, I'm like, you know, devoting my creative energy to them. To them. And I wonder if, you know, the fact that these are objects that will be used in somebody's life. you know, and they will, you know, does that idea appeal to you? I love that idea. 00:10:33.040 --> 00:11:48.200 Right. And in my kitchen cupboards, I know or have met every person that has made all my plates, mugs, dishes, bowls, That's cool. And to me that is super cool. That is something that - and some of them have a fingerprint here or a weird little mark there. They don't stack up perfectly like a set of plates from Macy's or wherever. But they're all special and beautiful in their own way. And some of them, if I need something that matches, I'll buy more than one. But even the ones that, in quotes, match don't match because they're all handmade. And so, yeah, a lot of times I wonder, especially now that I'm... producing on a larger scale, I wonder where they end up. Actually, a friend of mine told me recently a story that she was at a friend of hers house, this is a friend of my partner's, told him, I saw one of Rob's pieces at my friend's house. That's like, that's kind of cool. And I had no idea, right? 00:11:48.200 --> 00:12:13.600 so even if you don't know where they are just the idea that they're out there in the world and they're they're fulfilling their you know their destiny as a bowl or a tray do you do you get that same sense of satisfaction though make you've made paintings and you've done graphic design you've done interior design yeah do you get that same sense of fulfillment that of kind of being incorporated in somebody's lives that is a really really good question 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:47.720 I don't imagine it's as potent because there's something about like actually okay so for interiors I think it is because my main objective when I approach an interior is I want my client to love it I want it to be better than they thought it would ever be but I also want them to feel like you know I want them to be proud of their home want to be in it love what it looks and feels like, you know, so that's sort of fulfilling its function as a, you know, a design space. So I think that's along the same lines. 00:12:48.880 --> 00:12:50.080 Paintings? 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.080 That's a good question. 00:12:54.940 --> 00:13:13.820 Maybe a little the same. Paintings are, seem, there's a, - There's a little bit less function. I mean, I know they're obviously decorative and-- - But you're not using them as a surface to eat off of. - Right, right. Or you're not living in them. 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:23.000 Yeah, and all you painters out there, please don't think that I think that painting is just decoration. Please. 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:25.620 But definitely more so than... 00:13:25.620 --> 00:15:53.700 Well, you know, the opposite could be said about ceramics is that, you know, it's only craft or only functional, you know, or something like that, you know, and the opposite way. I try not to get into those discussions because they feel like they're losing battles in a way. Well, then where does it, you know, where do you end up? Well, you can argue both sides and both, you know, really valid, you know, they're both valid arguments. And so that's, you know, I look to myself and I guess I think what you're, you know, going for is what, or what you asked me to begin with is, you know, what appealed to you about ceramics, you know, and, you know, and having knowledge in so many different mediums, you know, how and why is this the one I've ended up with? But I think it's because there is so much possible. There's one thing I should mention that I do love about pottery is that there's an element of, it's not chance, but there is kind of a wild card element to clay and that you have to hand it over to the fire. You have to put it in the kiln. And no matter how experienced you are, you know, I've been doing pottery for over 30 years, and I still will screw up a piece, you know, it happens. You know, less so now, thankfully. But it's part of the process. Even if you, you know, make the same bowl with the same glaze, you know, 20 times, there's just maybe one time that there was you know something in the glaze or it was too close to one of the heating elements or you know on a lower shelf in the kiln and it didn't get enough air and so it's a little bit of a different color. You know having that sort of transformation is pretty magical you know I've heard a lot of potters you know consider opening the kiln. They liken it to Christmas morning. Especially when you're going for atmospheric firings using salt ash, soda ash, wood firings. Because all those things do... They give flares on the pots or colors that you don't know until you open that kiln. You have no way of knowing what it's going to look like until... 00:15:53.700 --> 00:16:39.800 You see what nature did and I remember doing it was it called raccoon when you back to the same? Yeah, you stick it in a trash can with yes You know what I wonder about it like along those lines is you know that element element of magic or alchemy or something? You know that that the material itself Introduces this unknown right or wild. Yes. I wonder if in in pottery I that feels more intense because it's such a dramatic thing when it goes off the rails, right? Because your thing could explode, or it could melt and stick to the stone. Those are rookie mistakes. Yeah, okay. Well, maybe not. I kind of envision that. No, you're right, though. There is a lot of... 00:16:39.800 --> 00:16:44.260 It's like the stakes are higher almost. They can, yes, they can be. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:17:11.140 Like say he had a series of plates and for whatever reason a bunch of them cracked or he stacked them in between firing. It just seems like, and then like 100 hours out the window. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So some really, I don't know, it feels at some level like more is on the line. Is that a misperception or is that something you feel? 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.940 I think for people just starting, it's a bigger issue. 00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:16.020 Sure. 00:17:16.100 --> 00:18:01.700 You know, but that's only because they're learning the capabilities of the clay and they're learning construction and they're learning how to make something, you know. Like for, you know, things exploding in a kiln. I haven't had anything explode in... years. That's because I know how dry it needs to be. I know how, if it's, you know, however thick. You just learn these things over time. So if it's too thick, it's too wet or whatever, you know, I even know how to program my kiln to sort of preheat it and dry it out before the firing even starts. If I have something that I think might even pop, I'll just put it on a preheat just to be safe. you know. So you just, you know, I think it's just experience 00:18:01.700 --> 00:18:27.860 and a learning curve. - To dig a little deeper into that, like do you try to control it as much as possible and then just find joy in that little wild card of lack of control that the material will always have? Or do you purposefully introduce not slop, but like some... 00:18:27.860 --> 00:19:33.600 This is a great question. So yes, there are artists that do both. I'm a little bit more towards the control side of things. Right, right. But that's only because I need to replicate the same object numerous times. If I was making big ceramic blobs or sculptures or whatever, maybe I would loosen up with that. But with that being said, that moment that two glazes overlap and make a third color, that is money right there. And that's what makes it exciting. And so I do a lot of tests. I do a lot of testing because you know if you have a you know a vase like you said you may have spent hours on you know how many hours making this set of plates or whatever it might be I'm not gonna wing it on the glaze job right so I'm gonna do you know a decent amount of testing beforehand with little tiles or anything, you know, whatever, you know, and... 00:19:33.600 --> 00:19:48.180 Will you always, when you make a, like, you know, set of plates, will you always keep some scraps of clay off to the side from that block of clay to test with so you, there's some consistency in your testing or does that not really matter? 00:19:48.180 --> 00:20:50.260 It doesn't have to be that specific one. It didn't just, it just, it needs to be the same clay, you know. um, just to see how a specific, cause there's so many variables, you know, like whatever the iron content is, the clay in the clay can actually inform the color of the glaze. Um, that's on top of it. There's a lot of factors, um, but you know the easiest way is when I get a new glaze I just I have a whole bunch of test tiles already pre-made and all my clay bodies and I'll just whenever I get a new color I'll just make some new tests pop them in the kiln that way I know what color that is on that clay. I also do, you know, one coat, two coats, three coats, so I can see how the glaze will move. I can also see how it looks on texture. You know, there's a lot of information on that one little test tile that I, you know, then I hang it on my wall and must do, you know. Can I take a picture of your test tile wall? 00:20:50.280 --> 00:21:03.840 Sure, yeah. You can tell, like, I've got my own, like, I delight to a certain degree in, like, organization and you know yeah that stuff there's kind of a i get into that well those are my you 00:21:03.840 --> 00:22:15.860 so that would be like my box of paints you know so when it comes time to you know create something new I can, I guess I could liken it to either, less so paint because most glazes aren't mixable but it's more like a print maker. You get your whole print set up and your plate or your silkscreen or whatever you're going to use and then you're going to pre-mix all your inks, you know, so those, you know, those test tiles or those glazes are are my library of colors that I then can use and apply, you know, however I want to on that particular piece pretty confidently. Every once in a while, I will do something that I'm pretty sure is going to work on a finished piece. And sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. And every time I do that... I think, ah, no more experimenting on finished work. And then I think I have a few things that I keep meaning to hang them up on my wall just as a reminder. Don't experiment on finished work. Do a test. 00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:19.720 I'm sure that that's... It must be painful to have that. 00:22:19.980 --> 00:23:04.700 It's, you know, you learn to, so that's another really interesting thing about ceramics. Like you said, things can crack or joints can pop apart. You could have an inclusion in the glaze. There's numerous things that can happen in a firing. And so you have to be able to let go of that and know that, you know, it may not come out. and I can make another, you know. It's not the end of the world, you know. Oftentimes, you know, I've had stuff that I really, really needed to be done and it comes out and it warped or something, you know. And you know, that I just smash and throw it in the trash can and make another. There's no real way to go backwards from that. 00:23:04.700 --> 00:24:00.040 I think that's one of the hardest lessons for people like of any creative in any creative endeavor to to learn is you know that to let go of that preciousness right I think it it manifests in so many different ways right in the midst of the process but also just like yeah I had something in mind. I see so many students, it's almost as if they're treating this like they're a great masterpiece. It's that level of investment on their part. And I see how I used to do that too. And I've kept all my paintings from high school. Yeah. And being able to look in retrospect and also see this happening to my students, it's just like so apparent to me how much that holds people back. It's like you've got to learn how to let it go. 00:24:00.040 --> 00:24:12.800 I agree. I agree. I think it's... Not to say that everyone should rush, but also I think you can spend too much time on something. I think it's that preciousness. 00:24:15.060 --> 00:25:14.600 That's why ceramics forces you to let go of that. Especially when you're new and you're beginning. Because even the glaze on the test tile that's hanging on the wall... Your piece, you might not have put it on the same thickness, so it's gonna look different or splotchy, or it could have been next to something else that gave it a color flare. There's so many different things that are out of your control. That's why I teach ceramics too, and I talk to my students about that precious object syndrome. That's what I like to call it. And that is try to let go of that, Just know that you made that one, right? Like you had success, it's right there. Let's finish it, let's fire it, let's do it, right? And then you can learn from what comes out of the kiln, whether it's cracked, exploded, or beautiful object that your mom and dad are gonna fight over. 00:25:40.700 --> 00:25:51.940 I actually think that for all art. Yeah, I think there's definitely a lot of crossover there. I'm a big fan of just try it, just do it, just make it. 00:25:52.680 --> 00:26:14.840 In ceramics, there's definitely kind of a purist school. Oh, for sure. Right? I guess that's any... I think, yeah. With oil paints, I can think of that. Like, you know, you go to the art atelier, and they grind their own paints, and they use Venetian linen, you know? And it's like... Yeah, it's there, I'm sure, in every field. 00:26:15.500 --> 00:26:16.000 But... 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:28.620 Where are you in that spectrum? Do you feel, like David, I was talking to him about ceramics and he obviously has no hesitance to defile. 00:26:28.620 --> 00:27:36.180 - Yeah, so I, honestly, I love David's work. He's such a talented artist in all respects, but, You know when I look at his ceramic work, I wish sometimes I wish like wish my brain worked that way But it just doesn't you know, there's room for everybody He makes what he makes I make what I make they look different Neither one is better or worse, you know I do think what I would say is that, I mean, I had a purist. All of my instructors, both at UCLA and Santa Barbara, in private workshops, were most of them have been purists. Right. So I have this foundation of sort of, I don't want to say perfection, but let's say technique. Sure. Okay, so that's what I started with. So I think I'm being super free. Right. I think I'm Lucy, Lucy. 00:27:36.580 --> 00:28:09.100 Just to clarify, what I mean by purist, it means like, you only there's a very um i don't know like you keep ceramic materials with ceramics you don't like like david uses uses resin he uses acrylic paints he's like there's this um blending of media and techniques that i think would probably make uh you know the the ceramic purist cringe a 00:28:09.100 --> 00:29:10.800 because I know you know some galleries that probably wouldn't show David's work unfortunately because there's paint involved but but I think where we are in history right now and there's so many you know young artists making work right now I wish I had some names for you I don't but they're mixing crazy stuff with pottery you know I somebody flocks pottery, there's some soft sculpture mixed in with ceramic elements and I think that discourse, that conversation has been opened up and I think that it's moving away from that sort of purist mentality Yeah. But, you know, that being said, for function aware, you can't have, you know, it needs to be all fired ceramic materials in order for it to be food safe or, you know, vitreous or, you know, whatever your end goal might be. 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:33.380 Right. see that's that's another wrinkle in ceramics or pottery that i think is so interesting that it does have this you know interaction with food which is so intimate and it's like there are real like health and safety concerns right oh for sure so for sure so you just you can't be too free and loose with it no like you're killing people i'm not killing maybe killing people if you're using 00:29:33.380 --> 00:30:22.600 like lead-based something you know the lead-based scare i could go on about that but yes it's not safe it's not safe to eat lead based glaze I mean glaze but we all had lead based glaze in our pottery when we were kids and everybody's still alive no it's about when you store things over a large long period of time in a pot that has lead glaze, that lead can leach into the moisture in the food. So let's, for example, some kimchi in a pot, you know, that's going to sit and it's going to take on all that lead. And yes, you could get lead poisoning, but you know, most glazes these days, I mean, you can't even buy toxic materials anymore. The ceramic suppliers just don't, they won't sell it. 00:30:22.600 --> 00:30:53.600 If you could name some of the techniques that you use or describe some of your favorite, I guess, can you do that? Are there favorite techniques or approaches? I'm thinking of that. There's a photo transfer technique that you had told me about that I had never been aware of. Are there, do you have favorite methods, techniques, materials, glazes, clays that? 00:30:53.600 --> 00:31:24.100 - For sure, I mean, it's, you know, the options are just like any other, or like painting or whatever. There's a ton of choices, right? So I typically work in earthenware, which is a low fire clay body. So that fires at about 1880 degrees. And that would be similar to terracotta, like just any plain old flower pot you find at the hardware store. That's a low fire terracotta clay. 00:31:24.100 --> 00:31:30.380 - Does low fire necessarily mean that it's not as rigid? It is not as durable? 00:31:30.380 --> 00:32:30.380 - Good question. So it's a little bit more brittle. Earthenware clays are more brittle. It can ship a little easier maybe. you can't get them as thin, they're not as strong, and they're not quite as vitreous. So I'll go back to the flower. What does vitreous mean? Vitreous means it has an absorption rate that's higher than... So for example, your terracotta pot on your patio with a plant in it, when you water that plant, the pot leaches on water and it could make a ring on your deck or whatever, right? We've all done it. if you have let's say a porcelain teacup you pour tea or coffee in that cup that cup is a hundred percent or really close to a hundred percent vitreous mostly because it's glazed but also the clay body is more refined and and has a higher absorption rate. So porcelain is a high fire clay. - Got it. - So we have a range. 00:32:30.380 --> 00:32:52.380 - So vitreous, is that synonymous with porousness or absorptive or? - It means watertight. - Watertight. - Yeah, so that would be your absorption. - It seems like there's something more in there. - That would be your absorption, yeah. - It's like, yeah, okay. So it's probably not just about porousness. It's probably about, yeah. I imagine there are other mechanical properties that make it... 00:32:52.380 --> 00:33:36.200 Right, yes. So you could have a particle that can actually absorb water. It may not be an air bubble or a hole. It's not a porosity level. It could actually take on water. Got it. So that's why you want to glaze, for the most part, if you're making dishes or something. something for food, that's why it's glazed, because the glaze is a surface that's going to make it completely vitreous and make it so that, so you can make a plate out of terracotta or something, some kind of clay. We're on a big side track, I think. No, go for it. I'm trying to remember the question we started with. But that's, you know, okay, so that's why you glaze. 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:41.400 If you make a play out of terracotta, then you'd want to glaze it so it's more vitriol. 00:33:41.420 --> 00:33:51.020 Or if I'm going to make a vase out of terracotta, I'm going to make sure it's well glazed on the interior so that when you put water and some flowers, it's not going to leave a ring on your table. Right. 00:33:51.020 --> 00:33:51.520 Right. 00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:58.620 - Right. So you prefer the low fire clays. What is it about the low fire clay that you like? 00:33:58.620 --> 00:34:33.920 - I like, well, I actually like some high fire, mid and high fire clays as well. But the, okay, so the thing I like about the low fire clays is you can get brighter color glazes in low fire than you can with higher temperatures because, you know, when you have a higher temperature, all of those chemicals and particles and everything, they're burning away, right? So the hotter it gets, the less vivid or bright the color is going to be. So low fire... 00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:49.940 Is that just because, like, I imagine, I understand the burning away part, but I imagine there are just less chemicals that can withstand that amount of heat. There's that too. That's another, yet another factor. Yeah. Or pigments or whatever. So I imagine like iron oxide could probably handle high heat. 00:34:49.940 --> 00:34:53.420 Yeah, that's a perfect, that's actually a very common colorant. 00:34:53.560 --> 00:34:54.060 Right. 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:56.400 In glazes. In paint as well. 00:34:56.500 --> 00:34:58.800 Yeah. That's why you paint barns red, right? 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:00.400 It's like iron oxide's everywhere. 00:35:00.720 --> 00:35:05.400 Yeah. So you like just the range of colors available to you? 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:48.000 Yeah, I mean I like the earthy, rich quality. I use red clay and actually I use a terracotta clay that's called mocha. It's a little bit more brown than that typical orange color terracotta clay. you find. So I use the-- to me, it just seems more earthy. I don't know. I go through phases. I mean, if you had asked me 20 years ago, I would have told you I like what's called Beenix. It's a white china clay and porcelain blend. It's a domestic clay. But it fires to cone 10 or cone 5, which is in the 2000 range. 00:36:05.400 --> 00:37:09.340 but you know okay so there's you know there's no short answer ever in ceramics sure so there's some celadon glazes that if you fire I'm going to forget which direction it is oxidation or reduction I think it's reduction where if you do it in oxidation I might have this backwards because it's been years. But, you know, one, and that's in a gas kiln. Oxidation and reduction means the blend of how much gas and air is in the firing chamber. Right. So one way you fire it, it'll come out green. And the opposite way, it'll come out pink or red. So that's a high fire, but if you go to the low fire, like what I'm using, you can get bright red, bright pink, and a lot of those are synthetic colorants put into a glaze, just like mason stains, colored glazes, like a clear or a white glaze that's been tinted Mason stain, basically. 00:37:09.340 --> 00:37:13.160 - You said about at least five or 10 words in there that I have no clue. 00:37:13.160 --> 00:38:11.200 - May as well have been a different language. But so one thing that I really love about, I mean, I love living in California, I'm from California. I'm inspired by things that are sort of intrinsically Californian. One of those is our California tiles, like the Malibu pottery and Catalina pottery. All these companies in the 30s, 40s, they were making these Spanish tiles. And so that technique is called "cuerda seca," which means I think dry cord or dry line. And it's basically using a wax resist that's been tinted black and then you fill in the areas around. So that's the technique I use. But then I pair it with modernized sort of California imagery or patterns or motifs. 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.980 on like roof tiles and stuff like that? Or was it? 00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:57.700 Not so much roof tiles, but it's mostly, you know, tiles. Like you'll see in old Spanish style buildings that the risers of steps, you know, insets on patias, you know, like it'll be all terracotta. And then every fourth tile, there's like a little medallion or something. 00:38:57.700 --> 00:39:21.780 but mine have surfers on them they're awesome there is something just deeply California feeling about not just the imagery that you use but the color palette the I don't know the kind of graphic quality and you know the material too just that color of clay I don't know I have lots of a associations with, you know. 00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:39.700 - That's another reason why I use that brown clay. It's very similar to the clay bodies that were used for those tiles. I wanna honor that and do my own version of it all at the same time if I, I hope I can. 00:39:39.700 --> 00:39:48.520 Any other materials, techniques, approaches? Oh, I have a long list. I'm sure you do. 00:39:48.520 --> 00:40:05.760 I have things that I've tried and had mild success with that I want to explore more. Like you can silkscreen on clay with underglaze or glaze. I've done some of that, I just am dying to do more. 00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:13.400 So would you silkscreen photographic images? Is anything you can put on a silkscreen? 00:40:13.400 --> 00:42:17.260 Cool. Yeah and then you know there's now with the printing technologies becoming more and more accessible you can buy you can literally buy ceramic deep decal papers make your own decals you can have decals made you know if you want full color so is that like a water slide decal that you the water slide decal that is ceramic material though so you that you slide it on and then you fire it at a very low temperature you know it's already got to be a finished piece that's glazed and then you put your decal on and then you fire it and it becomes permanent it's fused into the glaze because it almost seems like the possibilities for these things are endless you know or even layering them up like what if there was a silk screen that then had a transparent glaze that then had the decal you know like totally that are all you know um layered and informing each other and creating you know weird and interesting things you know like i would just say to whoever's listening um walk around your house and see what what you live with and what you use daily that's ceramic and it will surprise you there's a lot and a lot more than you thought It's actually what I tell my students often. "I don't know what to make. I don't know what to make." Well, go pick one of your favorite things from home and make a new one by yourself. Whether it's the cup your toothbrushes go in or the dish that... you put your kitchen sponge on or, you know, like, or the thing you throw your keys in, you know, they're, you know, these objects that are around us, we live with them all the time. And, um, um, you know, I, I, uh, I think that it's important to, you know, appreciate them. That's all. 00:42:17.880 --> 00:43:08.400 And I would always advocate to, for, um, you know, people actually going out and consider buying original work. Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, like I, I, there is a palpable difference to me anyway. And I think if, it's not hard to get there either where, where I walk into a house and if I see an original painting, you know, that's actual, I can tell was made by somebody and not just like, you know, a print of some writer. There's a soul to it, right? There's that artisan or that person who made that, a piece of them is there, you know, that presence is there. Anyway, I think probably even more so... with these objects that are so integrated into daily life. 00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:12.480 - Yeah, I mean, well, yeah, just to go off of it. 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:14.160 - I don't think people appreciate, I guess. 00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:31.820 - I don't think they do. They forget that these things used to, like a mug, the coffee mug you might drink out of every morning, it wasn't made by a person. It was slip cast in a factory, probably in a foreign country. and a machine dipped it and glazed it and went through a conveyor belt kiln, and, you know, that's how it... 00:43:31.820 --> 00:43:39.040 But if you bought a mug that you used every day from, you know, whomever... Uh-huh. Rob. From Rob. 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:42.340 You need to make... You've got to start making mugs. 00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:58.900 Right. No, if you bought that from... From somebody, yeah. It's a whole different thing. Yeah, every day. It's going to cost you a lot more. It costs you a lot more, but every day. Every day, you're holding and enjoying it. Yeah, and it means something. It does mean something. 00:43:58.900 --> 00:44:50.100 I mean, oftentimes people attach memories or, oh, I bought that mug on that trip or whatever. That's good too. There's a tactile quality to it that commercial pieces don't necessarily have. - Right. - And so oftentimes if I, let's say, okay, back to mugs. If I'm shopping and I'm holding the mugs, I'm gonna go test all of those handles on all the mugs from all the different artists, see which one my hand fits best in, you know, and you know, something as small as that makes a huge difference in how you use and enjoy something. - Right. So, and yes, please support your local potters. Do you consider yourself a ceramicist? What are you? I'm an artist. Are you an artist? I go super vague, yeah. 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:57.200 So, if you were to write your own bio, you would say, you know... Artist, yeah. Artist. 00:44:57.200 --> 00:45:17.320 Only because I feel like everything informs each other. You know, I mean right now we've been talking predominantly about pottery, but we've gone up on printmaking, we've gone up on painting, we've gone, you know, and all those conversations are valid. Making those, you know, working in those other mediums informs other mediums. A lot of it can cross over, you know. 00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:30.900 But do you feel like you have a grounding in any, in ceramics or any one medium I understand the desire to kind of resist being tied down to one specific medium. 00:45:30.900 --> 00:45:36.900 Yeah, I mean, I have my favorites, pottery and painting. Those are my two favorites. 00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:49.120 Because I think even if I were to do pottery, I would do it as a painter. like there's something that I've a connection I've always felt to that mode 00:45:49.120 --> 00:47:27.000 of creativity I see I see what you mean I think it's interesting I think you know for a long time I was an interior designer you know and and that was my label that you know the world decided that I needed to be but I think now I think more and more you know I'm I'm a ceramicist or a Potter you know and I've sort of changed that definition. I don't know, I think people need to understand what you are and what you do and so they like these labels. I usually say yes, I do ceramics and I paint. I'm not completely aloof. But yeah, on the official autobiography or the biography, it would say artist. But I think, you know, for me, actually, this is an interesting question. I had a student ask me, or her husband wanted to know, if you could pick one, pottery or painting, which would it be right I said that's really mean no no but I picked pottery because I can do both you know I can paint on a pot you know I can paint you know flowers or you know whatever or surfer or whatever it might be so for me I think yeah I guess maybe you helped me just figure that out just now probably more of a ceramic artist or a potter at this point in my, you know, in my life. You know, I've gone through, yeah, I've gone through all kinds of waves. 00:47:29.860 --> 00:48:23.900 Rob, it was great to talk. Thanks for your time. Find images of Rob's work on Instagram at Rob Homsey Studio. That's R-O-B-H-O-M-S-Y-S-T-U-D-I-O. And all of this information, some images, and a brief biography are also available at the website for this podcast, which is dabalon.com forward slash podcast. Next week, I will have another conversation for you, so come back. Also, rate me on iTunes, subscribe on the website, and tell friends and family. And this week, I think Rob's suggestion is a good one. Walk around your house and take time to notice and appreciate how surrounded you are by ceramics. ♪ 00:48:23.900 --> 00:48:25.960 you