Trenton ReynoldsThis is Dabble On. My name is Trent Reynolds, and in this podcast, I have conversations with artists about materials. If you are enjoying this podcast and want it to continue, please subscribe or make a one-time contribution at dabbleon.com forward slash podcast. Leave a 5-star rating on iTunes and tell all your friends. The longevity of this program very much depends on your support, and I thank you. In this episode, I have a conversation with artist Jota Leal. Jota is an artist I have great admiration for. To call him a caricature artist is not quite right. A term he uses for his work, and I can't think of a better one, is "super portrait." The way he distorts and interprets a subject's likeness communicates something more about a person than just what they look like, and he's not trying to mock or make fun of his subject. The way he handles paint is masterful, and there is a wonderful depth of feeling and nostalgia in the colors he chooses. What I am drawn to most about his work is the thing that is most difficult to put into words. It is the life and the soul he captures and communicates. I know from many years of experience trying and mostly failing in my attempts to do this that it is not just a matter of technique and craft. It is something that comes from the artist. A unique perspective or sensitivity, a depth of character or ability to perceive what is most essential about people. I don't know. but it is inspiring to see an artist who does this as well as Jota. I learned a lot from this conversation and hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Here's my conversation with Jota Leal. I've noticed that you've got, you use acrylic on linen. Yeah. I see some charcoal, maybe vine. I'm not sure if you're using compressed charcoal, but definitely vine. Yeah. And then I see some animation done in what looks like maybe pencil or charcoal. What am I missing? What are the other materials that you use?
Jota LealNo, that's pretty much it. Acrylic, charcoal, varnish. And yeah, pencil.
Trenton ReynoldsAnd what is it about acrylic? Why do you choose acrylic?
Jota LealI say once that I have no passion for oil. And then I realized that I have to be really patient with acrylics. but I didn't know better when I was younger. No, it's, I don't know. I mean, that's true. I cannot wait, you know, weeks or days to finish a painting because I have to let the painting dry. I know now you have, you know, different mediums and different oils that will, you know, accelerate the waiting. Right. But I don't know. I had acrylics back in my home. Probably I bought them. Maybe it was a birthday gift or a Christmas gift. Right. So I always have them there and... And one day, I mean I used to paint with, actually to draw I used color pencils, I used pencils, maybe some watercolor, but I always had those acrylics there. And I remember when I started to use them, most of them were already dry, they were like was there were rocks already right but it was more like i i remember back in those days you know you always share your your work with your family with your closest friends and it was kind of the internet was you know growing so i have some artist friends through you know uh hotmail, messenger. And so I remember sharing some artworks with them and having feedback. But, you know, you always have kind of good feedback. You are searching for those. But I remember one of them who was really close to me and... was kind of a mentor uh a one day he you know he was always like that's nice that's wonderful that's beautiful but one day one specific day he said to me i'm bored like uh you can do more than that you're keeping doing the same things it was like a you know those things that you don't want to hear. Right. But, you know, those friends tell you what you need to hear, you know what you want to hear. But it was, for me, it was like a slap in the face. I remember I got really mad at how this guy would say this to me and, And, you know, in the rage, I say I will show him something. Like I will show him he's wrong or something. What I was doing was showing he was right. So, okay, I will do something right. different and the only thing I got on my hands in that moment was acrylics that I never used. Yeah, so I remember it was... So it was out of... Yeah, yeah. It was out of rage that you started using the acrylic paints. Yeah, exactly, exactly, just like that and I remember doing the painting. It was a Louis Armstrong, it was black and white and I remember working on it and And I say, wow, I was modesty apart. I was doing things that I didn't realize I was able to do. I don't know. I was just experimenting, but I was getting things that, you know, about texturing, about blending that, you know, that I never have done and I said, wow, I think this could be something else. And I remember finishing the painting and I sent it to myself, this son of a gun. Like I remember I scanned the painting and sent it to him and say, amen, thank you for what you just did. And that's what my, That's why acrylics, because of that. I kept painting with them since that moment.
Right.
Jota LealYeah. So yeah, it was out of race.
Trenton ReynoldsThat is a fantastic story. So when you finally use the acrylics, you found new possibilities. You found new texture. You found blending. Yeah.
Jota LealYeah, I have done it before because I remember I was working for a magazine years before and they started giving me covers, but I was doing, you know, watercolors and I was doing some digital, trying to get more rendering on there. But I never liked digital. I never liked digital. So I said, okay, we'll try to use paintbrush and try to get nice paintings for the cover. I was a Mad Magazine fan, and I remember those artworks in the cover. So I wanted to do something like that. But I remember my first attempt with acrylic was really... awful. It was like, for example, if you wanted to do, you know, like a flesh, it was orange and a lot of white or black. I don't know. My understanding was way off back in those days. So I remember I did a couple of covers, but it was good enough because of the subject to present it, but I knew it was not my thing. I don't know, maybe after those years, my knowledge, I don't know, something grow on me because when I get back to the acrylic was a completely different thing.
Right.
Jota LealYeah. It was the right time, right? Yeah, exactly. It was the right time, the right moment. Probably the race had to do something with it. right no there's there is a despite of it that yeah yeah no there's something i find this so
Trenton Reynoldsoften in my own work is that there are a variety of ways of getting there but when you get to that moment of letting go of like it can be rage it can be depression it can be yeah it can be a lot of things where you finally just say i don't care you know or i'm not gonna You just release yourself to it, right? It's like you're not anxious about it, you're not fearful about it, you just dig in.
Jota Leal- Exactly, because you don't know better. And that's the beauty of always walking those obstacles. areas that you have no comfort zone because you throw yourself with a parachute and you you die you die but at least you try something right no there's something to that for sure and yeah and why uh why linen linen's expensive yeah i i don't know back in my country uh i don't know if it was a specific linen but it was not canvas or was a mixture of between both Back in my country you don't have like here, I don't know, the things you buy in the store that you have the canvas already stretched. You have to go to the store and you have to ask for the size of the frames that you want. Of course you can find some brands in some store where it's more like boards, you know, like panels. And buying in the store that was closer to my home, the canvas was, I always asked for canvas. I never asked for linen. Actually, I knew about linen living here in the United States. But I was, you know, buying canvas. And then there were really, they were smoother than the canvas here. So, but when I moved back here, I mean, when I moved here, and I remember working here, just visiting because my brother was living here before. But when I was visiting here and I remember, okay, I need to work, I want to make some art. So I remember buying the canvas and the texture was, you know, stronger. It wasn't as smooth as back in my country, but I saw maybe in my country, they just bought, you know, a smoother fabric or surface and it's a linen. Yeah, it's more expensive, but I think it will go better with you. - Yeah, it is. - And when I got it, yeah, so when I, especially if you're doing a smaller painting, you don't have these holes or these mountains. So I say, okay, this is nicer.
Trenton Reynolds- Do you have a favorite online store that you use that's got good prices?
Jota Leal- Jerry's Adorama.
Trenton Reynolds- You like Jerry's Adorama? Cool.
Jota Leal- Yeah, at least for the linen, I buy those rolls. And yeah, you get better than buying just canvas, stretching canvas. So it's a good price.
Trenton Reynolds- Got it. And then you stretch your own, you buy the stretcher bars and...
Jota Leal- Yeah, yeah, I do my, sometimes I get this, I found in Hobby Lobby, these, that are not linen, it's more like, it's for watercolors. So it's kind of smoother. It's not as strong as the linen. It's actually more like plasticky. I don't know, it's more, but it have like a really smooth surface. Sometimes when it's a commission that, and they have like a normal size, like a commercial size, sometimes I just go there and buy a stretch one and use that. But yeah, I stretch my, especially the big ones. I stretch him, I buy the roll and--
Trenton Reynolds- You buy it pre-primed or do you prime it after you stretch?
Jota Leal- No, I buy pre-primed acrylic. - Got it. - Sometimes I reprime it, but not most of the time. I sometimes just do... The thing is, that's why I always use like a... a watery acrylic before painting because it helps to get the acrylic up top easily. So when I started doing that, I think I need to, you know, go over with more gasol, you because it's not, I mean, it's already smoother. With canvas I do, even if it's already prime, I always go and talk to get it smoother when I paint on canvas. But when I do on canvas it's more like for, loose paintings or if you are doing more expressionist, like using charcoal or using splash, so I don't need these smoother fabric. So I use canvas in those, which is cheaper, or at least not as expensive.
Trenton Reynolds- Tell me about that spatula. When did that spatula, you start using it, the white one?
Jota LealSo, I don't know, one day I just saw the spatula and I just grabbed it and said, "Okay, let's try something with this." And I remember I did... Egon Schild, he was the subject for that week. And I just did it. And I said, "Oh, this is nice." And I remember I post that painting, that little painting, because it was 547, I think it was. And he got sold immediately. Someone buy it. And I said, I think that you keep doing this. And then I don't know.
Trenton ReynoldsWas it that it didn't allow you to get detailed just like charcoal doesn't allow you to get details? It lets you be more sculptural in your approach?
Jota LealNo, it's kind of making a comparison between... I mean, it's not like I didn't want to go like at the end of the week, every week, just doing a charcoal drawing, you know. So I want to do something with. Yeah. So I want to do something with acrylic. I know I can use a bigger brush to get less detail. That's actually the way I paint, but I want to do something really loose paint. that does involve actually brushes, you know? And I saw the spatula and I said, okay, I can do this because, for example, when I paint, when I draw with charcoal, I do, you know, like a... I don't know, a black thing. And then I start to erase to get the shapes or the volume. So I want to do something like that, you know, like a splash of painting and then try to take out acrylic with a spatula. The same way I erase charcoal with my... eraser or my finger, something like that, that, okay, the painting is still wet. I still can scratch it. So I was trying to move from the charcoal to the acrylic without using the actual brushes. But it was... It was more like accidental. I saw the spot and I said, let's see if I can scratch this and try to get some volumes and start from there. Of course, I can go over with some details being done.
Trenton ReynoldsRight. I remember the first time seeing you using, well, I'd seen your work and then it's the end product is really detailed. There's a lot of really small mark making, right? Small and refined. And then I see you bring out the spatula. I'm like, what, how did, how do you get from that to, to the level of detail that I know that you typically end up with?
Jota LealI, I, I, I start with the detail things and, and, and, and, and it's still a, a, a need that I have time to time. Because it's different when you paint details, you can spend doing details hours and hours and hours. And I love to be there, out of the world, just doing it. getting those textures or those colors, those volumes down. But it's a different feeling that with the spout, because this is more like, okay, you cannot fail here because there is no, because with acrylic you can always put more painting on. You can always spend more hours or more days over if something doesn't, didn't go right, you can always fix it with more painting. This is a different thing. This is like going in the highway, not knowing if you have breaks or not. So it's like a different feeling. It's chaos. Like you're introducing elements of chaos, right?
Trenton ReynoldsExactly. I feel like with students when I'm teaching, there's this impulse that I think everybody has to a certain degree of feeling like the solution to all my problems is more details, when often the solution happens at a much more basic underlying foundational And I feel like you need that, I don't know, looseness. You need that element of unpredictability or something to keep it alive. I mean, that's kind of one of the things that I appreciate so much about your work is there is... And there's, yeah, there's a lot of wonderful detail that's fun to look at, but you're able to get life in there. And that's the hard thing to do, right? Like there's a soul in there. I appreciate that. I don't know how you like, I don't want to use words that aren't very specific, but there is. There's some kind of hard to achieve thing. thing that you're able to that you're able to capture that goes beyond just technical ability or craft right like there's and i think that's i feel like that spatula is is is a tool that helps you achieve that to a certain degree yeah again it's uh it was uh
Jota LealIt came from nothing. It came from just, ah, I saw it there. I don't know. Because I never received this question. Well, when I talk with my friends, they ask me about it. When did I buy that? Man, it was with me, I don't know, for years. I just pick it up today. But yeah, because I always have this need and... you know, you talk about foundations. And I remember having some students, or not students, colleagues that asked me about techniques and I always told them, and I always tell them, you have to work first, you know, the drawing, you have to work, you know, you have to get the shapes right. The acrylics, the details is just, I don't know, it's just decoration. It's not needed. If you can do it, bravo, you can do it. But if you don't have, if you don't start with something that is really good, you can put all the painting that you can put, you can do all the shiny, all the texture, but if you don't get, for example, in my case, you don't have the person, right away, it doesn't matter how good you are doing technique. And I remember having one student, I won't mention the name, but he was all about, you know, get the reaction of the public, like, oh, I can see the chain in there, you know, the tear or the metal or whatever, because that's easy to get, you know, with a double wide or whatever. He was more about those, you know, pricing than actually getting the, in our cases, getting the person down. Right. And if you get already the subject, then the rest is just, how you feel that they want to do it. And these days, I feel more like this chaos. But, you know, time to time, I want to, yeah, I want to sit down and enjoy the landscape. So I do, you know, more detailed ones. But even the detailed ones, you can see, you know, You can see the brushes there because I enjoy when I see paintings, I enjoy to see how or try to figure out how the artists get to this, get this, all that done when it's so much photographic. you just, I don't know, you lose kind of the soul. And I don't know anything against those artists that have so much technique that can pretty much replicate photographs. Because I was talking with another friend of mine who is also a musician. I mean, also a musician. He's a musician. I'm a wannabe. And we always make comparison with music. And he was talking about these guitar virtuoso that can play, I don't know, a thousand nodes in a second. And that's, you know, that's really remarkable. But we enjoy more, you know, these, you know, a really slow solo, you know, when you can, when the soul can actually breathe. Right. Which gives you a different feeling. So something like that, nothing against the people that put, you know, hours and hours in the craft. but sometimes you are more moved for a really nice melody than awesome notes in a second, basically.
Trenton Reynolds- I think that's a really good comparison and a really good analogy. You know, I noticed, I was watching one of your videos this morning, I think you've done Freddie Mercury more than one time, but there's one of him wearing a cape. Yeah. And as you often do, you were just first establishing simple shapes of his gesture of his body. Right. And like, even before you get to his face, you already know it's Freddie Mercury, right? Like in the way he's his stance and, And it's really, I think it's very instructive. If there's anybody listening that hasn't gone to see your videos, it's so instructive to watch how you build that from the foundation up, how you find, before you get to any eyes, nose, or mouth, right? You're already, you've got to do the hard work of building the foundation. I don't know how else to say it, right? And you capture his... you know, his essence, his kind of his personality, even before you ever get anywhere near to painting the face and how you, in the kind of shapes that you choose and the silhouette of the combination of shapes and then the gesture, you know, or the pose that you put him in.
Jota LealAnd I appreciate that. Yeah, that's kind of part of the... the way I do it or we do it, because it's more than an image, especially for example, Freddie Mercury, that we have seen, I don't know how many videos and interviews, so we kind of have a knowledge of this person. at least through footage, right? So we know kind of the tone of his voice, the way he walks, the way he moves. So I think everything is already in your brain at the time when you're going to draw or painting. So I think all of that goes through the brain Actually, I think the image is the last thing you got aware of. The image that you're using as a reference because you already have an essence of this person. And I think it was a Mad Magazine artist, he said, I don't know if it was Mark Drucker or one of them, He said that what we do is like a super portray that looks even more, looks more than the, to the person and the person itself, because I don't know, maybe because we put all those things together in that way. painting or that portrait that involves many, many other things that we already have knowledge of. So when, for example, in that example that you're using, that you have this this movement of him with the cave and the legs and the thing, so I don't know, you are painting, actually I'm describing that and I'm kind of seeing him in a concert, you know, singing and stuff. So I think all that gets into the painting. And you have to work with the composition of the canvas. That's why I also try not to draw before that because... I need to use the actual canvas to create the piece. And when you do it, for example, in my case, when I try to do a studies of it, 90% of the time the good one gets into the notebook, you know, into the sketchbook. And then when I go to the canvas or to the linen, is already gone. I have to kind of copy the one I did in the paper. And it loses the primal, you know, the spontaneity of that moment.
Trenton ReynoldsSo do you not typically do or work from a preparatory sketch? Maybe you do sketches just to warm up, but you're making an original composition when you get to the canvas?
Jota LealI get, yeah, I do that. It was hard to do at the beginning because it's, you know, the empty canvas is always, you know, I don't know, it looks so, so, it's like a virgin woman. Like you have, you're just going to, you know, to ruin, let's put it that way. So they just want to do it the right way. Right, right. So, yeah, the beginning, especially because it was acrylic, I hesitate all the time. But then I realized when I was doing a sketch and when I was doing a study, I was always trying to copy the one I did in the sketchbook. I only do draws or studies when, for example, I have too many images and I'm not sure which one would be the right one. So I need to select, I don't know, two or three. But what I do is kind of do the frame really, really tiny, more like a thumbnail of what could be the painting. And I do kind of more like a silhouette, but really, really, really rough because I don't want to lose anything. the momentum in that drawing. But that's, I think the only way when I'm not sure. Or maybe because there are characters that you know, you don't see as clear. So sometimes, yeah, I need to go a little bit because I know if I go to the canvas or to the linear in that moment, I still don't see it. You have to kind of have an idea. I know really, I'm not, 100% sure every time I go to the ISO, but you have an idea. And then the splashes or the, because even if it's a detailed one, I always do the sculpture in the end. in the canvas or in the linear. I always sculpt and then the painting will guide you. Okay, you have to go here or there and then you have to raise here.
Trenton ReynoldsSo how would you, I don't know how I would explain that. What does it mean that your process is sculptural? How would you explain that?
Jota LealIt's because with the sculpture you go from big to small or too big to detail. So you try to if you have this big piece of clay or a rock, you're still, you know, taking out things. Exactly. It's more about taking out things, you know, you are taking out. thing that will give you the volume. For example, in my case, okay, this is where the eyes will be. This is where the nose will be or the chin. But I'm not actually drawing or painting the chin. I'm just putting dots of darkness or darker color or maybe taking out for the more clear tone. So I kind of... that if I have to stop, you already see a silhouette or a volume of this person. And then you go further, you keep taking out, you keep taking. So for example, if I'm doing a painting, or even with a spatula, then I have kind of the shape already done, then I can go with more thing. brush and then I can do some detail. The same way you do with a sculpture. You start taking out where the eyes, where the nose goes, and maybe putting back a little, maybe taking out, but you part from a shape. So you have this shape and you have to make this shape work. So in this shape, you will have to put the eyes, the nose, the mouth, and everything. You cannot get out of this shape. So it's something like that.
Trenton ReynoldsI think it's much easier to experience and to show than perhaps to tell or to explain it in words. But it's a very different approach. It's a different way of thinking about what you're doing. And I think the opposite, and tell me if you agree with this, the opposite would be starting with, like an outline of something and just basically filling in. Exactly. Yeah. So you're starting a different, just a different mindset where you're finding the, the forms as you go along, starting with larger volumes of paint and larger areas and, and then trying to locate or kind of mold the features and the parts of the painting into it.
Jota Leal- Yeah, because even when I was going to say, when I used to draw, when I was drawing, I never was, you know, the thin line drawing. I always go with, I just like, for example, the shape of the face, but it was, I'm doing the lines with my hand like you're watching me. But you know, like a really, really rough. And I always put where the things should be. And then I start to cleaning all those lines and try to, okay, this is where that would be. But yeah. something like that if you're drawing.
Trenton ReynoldsA lot of portrait artists will do a very detailed drawing and then just do a transfer drawing to the canvas, right? So they're basically just filling in an outline more or less. Yeah, exactly. And that's a very different process.
Jota LealYeah, I think it has to do because I'm... I'm pushing the subject and again, I'm working with the space. So I need this shape to be in composition or in balance with this space or this frame. So it has to be created there. That's the way I feel it. So that's why, for example, you have, I think I did it in the Freddy, I had to check the video, but I'm pretty sure I started with the feet. with it because I now I need to know where the, for example, the legs will end. And then I will take it onto the top and then, okay, this is where the head will be. So it were like a movement. And while when you're doing portray, it's more like a because portraits is, I heard once, is about correcting, like, you know, correcting, correcting, correcting, and it's more technically, of course, there are, you know, and again, nothing can portray artists, but it's more you have to copy what is there, which in my case, I have to, solve it because I'm pushing things and I still have to make it look like a person with all the things I'm doing. Right. So you have to solve it. If you put, I don't know the mouth bigger. So something has to change or something has to, to, uh, to be or maybe take out in order to work. And I was asked actually last week, someone was talking about what we do and talking about caricatures. I don't like to talk about what I do, call it caricature because, and again, nothing against caricatures, but people have this... this idea that caricatures is only to mock people to make fun of which yeah it was the original caricature but it is deeper than that it's it's more like a surrealistic approach of the character of the person, as I say before, like a super portray. Right. Because, and it's not, people talk about exaggeration. And what I said at that moment was, for example, you have your family, you have your friends, when you think of the person closest to you, and you cannot have a real image of this person. You have an idea of this person, even if you know it forever. You have an idea of this person, and there are things of this person that are more clear to you. It could be the eyes, it could be the nose, it could be the hair. So what I do is try to paint from memory or paint for that. So it's not like I'm doing things bigger. I just... putting there what is important of this person and the other things are not important. Maybe they're smaller or maybe they don't appear. But it's more like a word from the memory. So at the end, it's not exaggerating things. It's just interpreting things the way you see a person and the way you remember them. in a more surrealistic way, of course.
Trenton Reynolds- Yeah, I'm gonna try to remember this 'cause something you said earlier I find so profound and that is that you said that you're not, you're not painting the photograph, you're painting everything that you know before the photograph, like all your experiences of that person, all your feelings about, you know, what that person represents or their work, if they're a musician, their music, right? And all of that experience is being filtered through this image. Whereas like me, I've tried caricature for years and years, and I don't feel like I'm very good at it. And I think partly because I, I think what I, what I feel like I'm doing or ought to be doing, or what I feel like how I get to where I'm trying to go is by taking the photograph and just exaggerating things in the photograph. Right. But what you're saying is, is so much more than that, right? It's not about the photograph. It's about everything else, all the other experience you have of this person and getting all of those feelings or filtering.
Jota LealYeah, I realize and this is through conversation of other colleagues. But I remember when I started, I mean, I've been doing caricature my whole life. But when I was getting more serious in this, because we all have this moment, OK, we don't get the person or. But I realized when the image was the words, you have to, you know, work harder to get it right. So I remember, I'm not sure which character it was, but I was having a hard time. And every time I have a hard time, I know I won't get it. I have to let it rest and go back later. So I remember I was about to go back later. So I was closing everything. And I said to myself, okay, I will do it again. But I didn't have the image with me. I just draw it from memory. And I got it and I said, "Oh, this is interesting." So it's something I can say that I have heard before, but I actually didn't apply it to it. So in talking with some retail character artists that I know, they say that to me, "No, I see the person and then I put my head down." and try to do it from that first view, because if I start just looking and looking and looking, you start copying it, right? So it's part of this-- - I think that's hugely important.
Trenton ReynoldsThat's great. I'm gonna go back and try to--
Jota Leal- No, no, it's true, it's true, because sometimes it happens to me still. Like I'm still, because we all have those moments. I keep doing someone and I say, okay, just relax and just try to do it. And then I lose myself and I see it from my mind, not from the picture. And okay, yeah, I got it. I got it. Because now all the time we're having the right mindset or the right, I don't know. I always say that every pain depends on the moment you start painting it. could be five minutes later five minutes earlier and I'm pretty sure it will be just different
Trenton Reynoldsright so sure I kind of feel like that keeping yourself from getting too attached to the photograph is another reason to add a chaotic element to your process right so that spatula like it doesn't allow you to get too attached to the photographic image and forces you into a space where you're having to deal with something that's unpredictable or that you can't control, right? Like something more fluid and not as tied down to the photograph. No, I think that's awesome. You mentioned Mad Magazine. Yeah. Who are some of the other people that have kind of informed your evolution as an artist and who are the people that inspire you?
Jota LealI always fall in love. I mean, I've been doing caricature my whole life. I remember discovering that I was in these art school. It was a school for, you know, retired people. It was, I was the only kid and everyone was just old people that, you know, were retired. And I remember I will always wanted to do faces and they were, you're asking me to do, you know, the bottles, the fruits, the fake fruit, the empty bottle. And I was always, hey, I want to do faces, I want to do faces. I wasn't thinking in caricature, I just want to do faces. And this guy throw me a old book and there were caricatures there. It were, I don't know if they were scientists or writers, but it was this, it was an, ink. And there was the big head and the tiny bodies. And I was, wow, what is this? And I was just... And they asked me to copy it in a paper. And I did it, but I was so, so excited of doing that. So that was kind of my first... magic moment of the caricature. Of course, I grew up watching the Flintstones. I grew up watching cartoons. But I never saw them as a caricature. I saw there were different things.
Right.
Jota LealBut in some moment, then I realized, okay, this is Tony Curtis. This is, you know, Humphrey Bogart. And then in this universe. So this is real people just done in a simple way. drawing them and copying them for years and years. So for me, the idea of caricature was, you know, Mark Drucker, Sam Viviano, these people from Mad Magazine. So that was kind of my, the way I was drawing for years and years and years until, yeah, until I grew up and then the internet got me to, you know, the master from, other years and for South America there are so many geniuses so that kind of moved me to other places basically. Well there's two artists that your work
Trenton Reynoldsreminds me of that I was wondering if you'd heard of one is Charles Bragg
Jota Lealyeah yeah yeah yeah i have a book of pain it's so so so amazing yeah what your your style is so
Trenton Reynoldspainterly like i look when i look at mad magazine work it feels more illustratorly or illustrative like yeah yeah sharper edges not as much soft brush work and you've got a very like uh
Jota LealYeah, that's one of my bibles, this Charles Bragger. He was a friend of mine who gave me that book.
Trenton Reynolds- Yeah, he's fantastic. But yeah, your subject, not so much as your paint style, feels very much like Charles Bragger to me. And then the other, have you ever heard of, or are you aware of Alfredo Castaneda?
Jota LealYeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. He's another one of my favorites. No, yeah, you have good ones.
Trenton ReynoldsHe's got a soul in his work too. Most of them are self-portrait, but I think, again, a beautiful painting, a lot of life there that I feel like...
Jota LealYeah, I love this idea of... you know, because as I said, this is not a minor art. So let's make it look like it is. This is real art. Why don't use acrylic? Why don't use oil to paint them? So when you see these images in a frame and not in a fridge in your kitchen, it's different because you can take it there And there are so many, many friends of mine that I cannot do what they do. They get it right so easy, so quickly, and I say, "I wish I could do that." So they should take some time to move. I mean, you can still do that, but you can just get into an easel and take time and make painting or those things that you need. make because you are an artist. You're not a caricature artist. You're an artist. And what we do, we express ourselves in many, many ways that maybe a paintbrush is the easiest way to express ourselves, but we are not just painters. We are artists. So we don't have to close ourselves to just what we do. So I think that's how I have managed to to move for mostly apart for different areas because I love so, so many things. And I, and again, I have my colleagues that I love, love, love, but I try not to get inspiration from them because if not, we kept doing the same all the time. So you have to move in, not just painting, you have to move to a sculpture, you have to move movies or music or whatever that inspires you and try to incorporate all those elements of what you do.
Trenton ReynoldsAlong those lines, I've noticed that you've done some animation. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Where does that come from?
Jota LealI always loved animation, you know, since school when you use the books, the notebooks, I mean the books and you use these...
Trenton ReynoldsFlip books type deal?
Jota LealYeah, the flip books. No, what are flip books? But yeah, it was my educational books and I never pay attention in class and I always was doing these sticks. and man moving, exploding, and throwing the sand and parachutes or whatever. So I always loved that. So I remember back in my country, one of the first things I did, and I don't know why, I was moving around, trying to figure out what I was going to do. I knew I... I know how to draw, but okay, how do I make a living with that? So I think I was moving, trying to do a storyboard. So in, you know, in commercial agencies and stuff like that. So I think someone recommended me for a, for an animation scene for an intro of a TV show back in my country. And they say, could you do that? Yeah. I never have done it before more than the film. And I did it and I love it. But, you know, the things that you see right now, for example, on my Instagram, it's more like a rotoscope, which is, you know, taken for a footage. The things that I did back then was, you know, like literally... 2D animation like in the cartoons, which I love. But I don't know, I always have this need of see things moving because for me also looks, I don't know, I think it's magical when you get the oldest friend to get and you had the first, I don't know, two milliseconds that you see something moving. So I don't know. I always have that in. I see most of the things that I do is first for love and nostalgia. So I always have this nostalgia of this animation. And I want to see all these things moving. And also because of the cartoons back in those days, Disney or whatever. or Fletcher, you know, this rotoscope thing, how these people move was so smooth. So I don't know, I want to sometime to recreate that. And I don't know, sometimes through the years I'm painting, painting, and I got an idea in my mind, if I don't get it out, I get crazy. So I say, okay, I will dedicate this week to get this animation out of my mind. my hair because he's not a way guy crazy. So, yeah.
Trenton ReynoldsThey're really, they're really cool. I love watching them. And the addition of, you know, just the different medium doing a doing an animation in charcoal is so much different than doing an animation and, you know, on the computer with,
Jota LealYeah, I always loved the traditional things. Yeah, me too. I use the tools that we have today that is easier to make it work, but I always go back to, you know, I always try to get things done in the old school way. which I love. I love.
Trenton ReynoldsSo two more things just before I say goodbye. One is what are you working on now that we can point people to or is it best just to point people to your Instagram account or are you working on a project?
Jota LealYeah, I think my Instagram is where I have things more like updated. I also have a Facebook, but sometimes I forget. But no, you can find me on, on Instagram and I try to reply and even the DMs I always you know because you know I don't know people is so kind and and I feel bad I don't say anything do you do commissions yeah yeah request commissions okay cool yeah yeah actually I'm I'm waiting for for a go in a commission I have to do this week So that's what I'm waiting for. Actually, I will remind these people because I'm kind of waiting because I want to start something. And I don't like to start something and then put it aside and then go to other things. So this is the idea for this week. Yeah, I do commissions. You're not just, you know, pop star or whatever is in their mind. families or whatever, whatever that move me. So I love to create that essence of this person. For example, I did a month ago, this grandpa for this family, of course I feel honor of the grandpa passed away and one of the song asked me to do his father, he was his father with his son. And I have to ask because I also do, you know, like, classic portrays, which, you know, I can do, but it's not kind of the thing that I love to do. I do it because I'm able to, but I have to ask this person, "Do you want me to do a classic portray, right?" "No, no, no, I've been following you for years and I want to do what you do." And that was kind of, wow, you know? Of course, I didn't push it that much because, you know, it's different. But, yeah, I enjoy it. He sent me so many pictures and you can kind of see how much the family loved this man. And so, you know, you try to do your best and... And it's always a scare when I send it the image and they were so, so, so happy. I feel so, so happy and relieved after that. But yeah, I enjoy those even more. I don't like I mean, I know what I do is mostly for our artists, but I love people too. Well, I want people to buy a piece now because I don't know. It's Michael Jackson in there and they love my I wanted to buy it because he's because I did it, you know, because my signature is there. So I actually love painting more like ordinary people. I think they are more extraordinary than the ones we see on TV, basically.
Trenton ReynoldsSome of my favorite paintings on your Instagram feed are... like that painting between of you and your father, I think it was sitting on a bench. Yeah. Some of that aren't necessarily really close in on the portrait or the, there's one of these kids, uh, and it looks like a kind of grass field that was like,
Jota Lealyeah, yeah. That, that's why it's a love and nostalgia. That's the, the most, most, me the most. And yeah, I, for example, I pay my, my dad every birthday. He, he, he passed away 10 years ago, but it's, it's a way to, to say hi to him and say, Hey, I still remember you. I enjoy those and give me this opportunity to, to, you know, not a pop star, not a movie star or a just do people that I love to do.
Trenton ReynoldsI wanted to say, is there any way we could contribute or help out with, with Gabby? Cause I know that she's, if I can put that out to my audience, I'm happy to do. Yeah,
Jota Lealplease, please do. This is a little girl that been fighting pretty much her whole life. with battling cancer. She's now 10. She has been battling pretty much eight years of her life. And she's right now in Spain, Barcelona. But the only treatment that she can kind of use to survive is right now here in the United States. And then putting together money to bring her here to try that on her, which is not 100%, but we have faith that it is. And so you can share the link of her website. She is the most amazing, brave kid ever. I mean, I have a cough and I want to throw myself through the window, but she had been going through pain. I never have seen someone who has so much will to live than her. And of course she's alone with her mom. And I can only imagine, you know, the pain on her mom, because there's no, nothing worse than see the loved ones suffering, especially if it's a little kid. So if you can help, it's a, yeah, if you lose, it's a lot of money, but those are things that I understand why it had to be like that, but I know we can make it. And I'm sure we will. And I'm sure we will. And thanks for asking me that. The best question ever.
Trenton ReynoldsI'll put a link up on the site. And there's somewhere people can go and donate to help Gabby get the treatment in the States, right?
Jota LealYeah. She's also an artist. And she's so, so bright. She's this little old lady in this tiny body because she's so brave, so smart. I remember this, and I want to say this to the audience. She was asked about this treatment, and now she asked the doctor about this new treatment, and they said, well, it's not sure. So she said, "So you're gonna try it on me to see if it works or not?" And the other said, "Yeah, pretty much." And she said, "Well, at least they will help the kid that will go after me." Something like that, you know. Things like that when 8, 9 years old. She is just amazing. She's just amazing, amazing, amazing. So yeah, love for her. Thanks Tretton for this amazing interview, especially for this end. But a consideration, you know, any time please reach out and I am pretty sure we'll be in touch after this interview. I hope so.
Trenton ReynoldsMany thanks to Jota for enduring some scheduling and technical issues. The best place to see his work is on Instagram at jota.leal. That's J-O-T-A dot L-E-A-L. I highly recommend taking time to watch his process videos. There's so much to learn from watching how he develops a portrait. The sculptural process we talked about is a very different approach to painting than what is often taught for portraiture, and his results are definitely evidence that it is an approach worth considering. If you want to donate money to help Gabby, a very special girl who needs all the help she can get to receive much needed, and expensive medical treatment, I hope you will take the time to do so by following the link in the show notes, which can be found at dabalon.com forward slash podcast. And thanks for listening to Dabalon. I'm glad you're there. Next week, I will have another conversation for you. So come back. Also, rate me on iTunes, subscribe on the website, and tell friends and family. And go draw someone you care about. ♪ ♪